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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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what's up everybody happy wednesday i

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hope your week is uh

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code pretty well

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you know uh not

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not bad

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uh not medium

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well i hope it's going well maybe even

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better than well you know that's up to

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you today we have a great show

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um we're gonna have our famous wednesday

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friend jay christopher king on with us

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we're also gonna have a mr david metcalf

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and this is gonna be all about the

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archives of the impossible which was

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held at rice university um

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such a project is based on the wager

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that new theory lies uh hidden in the

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anomalous that the paranormal appears in

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order to mock and shock us out of our

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present normal thinking

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seen in this way physical and paranormal

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phenomena become the still

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unacknowledged unassimilated other of

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modern thought

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the still unrealized feature of theory

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the fleeting signs of a consciousness

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not yet become a culture

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if however

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paranormal phenomena are meaning events

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that work and look a great deal like

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text then it follows that text can also

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work and look a great deal like

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paranormal phenomena

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writing in reading that is can replicate

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and realize paranormal processes

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just as paranormal processes can

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replicate and realize textual processes

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i thought that was beautifully written

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so i wanted to read it on air

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um so i'm going to bring

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jay and david on the show and they're

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going to kind of give us their thoughts

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on this event which took place march 3rd

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to the 6th again at rice university

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first of all our favorite best wednesday

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friend in the entire universe

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which is a large black so

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mr j how you doing

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i'm doing really well it's great to be

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back

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well it was great to be there

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and it's fine to be back but it's great

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to be back on your show it's fine it's

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fine to be back in jersey city it's like

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39 degrees outside it's snowing earlier

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now it's raining

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it's great to be there but it's fine to

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be here

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be at rice university wait fine now it's

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excellent fine

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jersey city now you're using excellent

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okay all right you know there's there

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are

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i'm not saying that it's not great to be

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in new jersey sometimes there are some

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days where it's really great to be in in

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jersey

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right um

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uh today's not one of them

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it's excellent great and fantastic to

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have you on this show i missed you so

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much i'm glad you had a great time uh

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last week uh it seemed fantastic so

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yeah do you mind

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um telling us a little bit about uh our

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other guests that we're gonna bring you

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oh sure um so

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david metcalf i i met at the conference

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which was amazing and uh it was great

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because i've been following him on on

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twitter for a while david's got a great

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uh blog on wordpress where he covers

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everything from consciousness to

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mediumship to ufology to a.i

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he's he's got a wonderful wandering mind

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he's he's also a

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a

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of

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interdisciplinary consciousness studies

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he's a super brilliant funny fun guy and

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cool i

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just thought he'd be a great addition to

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the panel today yeah i'm looking forward

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to meeting him for everybody i put his

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uh social and i forget which one of

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those websites i put in the description

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but one of them so you can uh get a hold

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of him there and without further ado

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i'll bring in it to mr david mcgiff how

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are you

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letting me out this is great yep

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i again you're uh jay's enthusiasm for

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being at rights and uh reticence for the

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return

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yeah i've been trying to reintegrate

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after a long weekend

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well lucky lucky for me i'm just even i

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didn't go so i'm just the same as i was

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right

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you weren't dealing with the emotional

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rollercoaster that i that we were i had

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like two full days of feeling like i

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just got back from summer camp and that

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like i missed all my new friends

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you know what i mean you must have a

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different kind of summer camp than i've

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had you know i wondered if my

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if all those cool badges that that i got

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over summer camp would mean anything

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when i got back home

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you know the not tying award you know

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and everything like that so

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i'll make you show us the badges later

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uh but for now um yeah it seemed like i

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mean it was jam-packed full of great

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speakers we had uh valet uh kane um

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strieber

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um and others so i guess one at a time

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what were

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some of

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you know what stood out to you the most

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what was your your take away from this

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event it seems like a you know kind of a

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groundbreaking thing that that went on

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so uh in your best way

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you know tell me a little bit about your

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experience

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sure um maybe i'll i'll

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do

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a little bit of setup first

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you know as we kind of

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remember

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sean you and i we

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we brought leslie kane on um gosh it was

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about a month and a half ago two months

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and she ends she spent a significant

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amount of her time interview we were

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talking about the archives of the

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impossible and so

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rice has this amazing research library

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the fondren library and they're very

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well endowed as an institution

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and

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they

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take excellent care of historical

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records and so jeff kreipel who runs the

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gem program

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in religious studies and i'd like to

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talk a little bit about that um with

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david and you later um but he's been

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doing an amazing job

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you know religious studies in our in our

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country anyway has been one of the kind

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of secret hiding places for talking

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about the paranormal

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for

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and and so it's

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and people like diana and jeff and even

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shawnee spear and hargens

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have kind of hid out in religious

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studies programs and similar programs

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it's it's often religious studies and

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philosophy where the where the weird

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folks can have been hiding out

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which is interesting at least in terms

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of openly discussing these things you

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know there's there's experiencers

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everywhere

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um

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and so

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jeff decided to

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had some pivotal conversations with

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jacques valet and

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chuck fillet was trying to figure out

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where to put his files didn't know where

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to put them or at least that's one way

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that i heard the story characterized

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um while we were down there and so this

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archives to the impossible at fondren it

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now has chocolate's files though they're

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embargoed for a while

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it's got the richards haynes files from

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narcap which was a great ufo reporting

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center

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it also has brenda denzler's files a

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bunch of whitley streepers

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letters and files all sorts of great

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stuff um stanley krupner i found out

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while we were down there

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and so

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going into it i mean just my first

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impression was just holy [\h__\h] this is

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actually happening

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an institution like rice is actually

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taking this these documents seriously

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i mean it also had you know there are a

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lot of abduction files from from whitley

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there are you know a lot of project

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stargate remote viewing docks that were

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donated by ed may who was the head of

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the stargate program from i think 85 to

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95. and so one of the first things that

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hit is just

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that it's even happening that you know

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i kind of had to pinch myself and i

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think just about everybody there was

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pinching themselves at the uniqueness

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that we were kind of it really felt i

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don't know how you felt david but to me

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it felt like

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i think it felt to most people there if

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not everybody that it felt like kind of

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the beginning of a new era in a way

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yeah i think that um

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you know i'm i'm based out of georgia um

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and

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the university of west georgia

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has

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been one of the universities that's had

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a parapsychology

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program

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in the psychology department

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not necessarily named as such but it's

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been friendly to it and they have the

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william roll

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one of the

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mid 20th century researchers that kind

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of defined the poltergeist

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he was involved in a lot of

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psychokinesis studies and that

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and so they had his holdings um and they

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got ingo swans

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some of his holdings as well so

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um the university of west georgia you

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know it had this

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archive which i was you know aware of i

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actually went and um visited the

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william roll collection before they got

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the ingo salon stuff and they have a

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fellowship an ingo swan fellowship that

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they offer

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um it's like three thousand dollar grant

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to researchers that

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you know are awarded the fellowship and

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they can come in and do a project based

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on

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the holdings there

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but they haven't had you know they host

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a william role lecture

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every year

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which brings people in um and they have

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you know when the

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the

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one ingo swan fellow so far um but once

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he completed his project he came and

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gave a presentation but it was they've

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never done anything like this

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you know um there's different things

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like the parapsychological association

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which holds the conference the ssc

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conference so different conferences have

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happened and obviously there's a ton of

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regional ufo conferences and some bigger

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some smaller and a lot of meetup groups

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but really

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this was the first time that all of

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these different layers came together

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um at a university

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with a central theme that's kind of

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displayed in the archive which again is

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multi-layered as you said it's got

285
00:11:20,230 --> 00:11:17,519
you know some of the files from the

286
00:11:22,389 --> 00:11:20,240
stargate project it's got um

287
00:11:24,790 --> 00:11:22,399
whitley's communion letters

288
00:11:28,389 --> 00:11:24,800
you know files from stan lee kripner who

289
00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:28,399
did the momanity stream lab research and

290
00:11:32,470 --> 00:11:30,800
has been really big and kind of uh

291
00:11:34,389 --> 00:11:32,480
studying

292
00:11:37,030 --> 00:11:34,399
psychology through an anthropological

293
00:11:37,910 --> 00:11:37,040
lens and a psychological and so

294
00:11:39,430 --> 00:11:37,920
you know

295
00:11:40,949 --> 00:11:39,440
yeah this it just had a different

296
00:11:42,389 --> 00:11:40,959
feeling um

297
00:11:43,670 --> 00:11:42,399
and because of you know

298
00:11:45,110 --> 00:11:43,680
it was interesting the coveted

299
00:11:47,670 --> 00:11:45,120
restrictions

300
00:11:49,829 --> 00:11:47,680
um they they limited the number of

301
00:11:52,550 --> 00:11:49,839
people who could be at the conference

302
00:11:54,230 --> 00:11:52,560
which can be you know that that's bad in

303
00:11:56,790 --> 00:11:54,240
a way but i think it also made it more

304
00:11:58,470 --> 00:11:56,800
intimate in a way where we were all you

305
00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:58,480
know we were all able to kind of talk

306
00:12:01,750 --> 00:12:00,240
and hang out afterwards you know after

307
00:12:04,069 --> 00:12:01,760
the time was covered

308
00:12:06,150 --> 00:12:04,079
um all in the show

309
00:12:08,550 --> 00:12:06,160
yeah so it was really it was a powerful

310
00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:08,560
experience and it's great too because

311
00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:10,480
you know things like this you meet

312
00:12:13,509 --> 00:12:11,680
people at different

313
00:12:14,949 --> 00:12:13,519
conferences and that and you know you

314
00:12:16,629 --> 00:12:14,959
meet people at

315
00:12:18,310 --> 00:12:16,639
different things and then

316
00:12:20,710 --> 00:12:18,320
something like this bring all these

317
00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:20,720
different people in you know

318
00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:22,959
one of my favorite people in the world

319
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:25,040
outside of whitley

320
00:12:28,310 --> 00:12:26,800
strieber who i just i love him as a

321
00:12:30,790 --> 00:12:28,320
human being

322
00:12:33,829 --> 00:12:30,800
but eric wargo who does precognitive

323
00:12:36,710 --> 00:12:33,839
dream research and research into

324
00:12:38,790 --> 00:12:36,720
what he calls time loops um i just i

325
00:12:40,629 --> 00:12:38,800
love eric and i've met him a couple

326
00:12:42,949 --> 00:12:40,639
times and we've had a chance to

327
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:42,959
to hang out and we we talked constantly

328
00:12:46,629 --> 00:12:44,959
um you know

329
00:12:48,629 --> 00:12:46,639
so it was great to just be able to hang

330
00:12:50,550 --> 00:12:48,639
out with him and and that and uh my

331
00:12:53,430 --> 00:12:50,560
friend greg bishop who wrote project

332
00:12:55,670 --> 00:12:53,440
beta and host radio mysterio so um he's

333
00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:55,680
in la i'm in georgia so we talked

334
00:12:59,269 --> 00:12:57,120
constantly but you know just an

335
00:13:01,670 --> 00:12:59,279
opportunity to hang out and see that and

336
00:13:03,670 --> 00:13:01,680
meet new people you know i met yeah

337
00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:03,680
jay and a bunch of other people who i

338
00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:05,440
hadn't had a chance to to really meet

339
00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:07,040
yet and it's just

340
00:13:10,949 --> 00:13:08,560
it's really good

341
00:13:12,710 --> 00:13:10,959
without that you you wouldn't be here

342
00:13:14,790 --> 00:13:12,720
and i wouldn't have met you and i'm

343
00:13:17,269 --> 00:13:14,800
super grateful for that so it's amazing

344
00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:17,279
the you know the kind of domino effect

345
00:13:22,150 --> 00:13:19,120
things can happen you know when things

346
00:13:24,629 --> 00:13:22,160
are more special the more special effect

347
00:13:26,790 --> 00:13:24,639
uh comes from it sometimes so

348
00:13:28,470 --> 00:13:26,800
with all that

349
00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:28,480
and without this i wouldn't have had a

350
00:13:34,389 --> 00:13:32,320
chance to see um the vintage ufo

351
00:13:36,710 --> 00:13:34,399
archive that you've got on your website

352
00:13:39,030 --> 00:13:36,720
oh thanks and literally stay up way too

353
00:13:41,189 --> 00:13:39,040
late last night reading uh

354
00:13:42,870 --> 00:13:41,199
review because i loved him

355
00:13:45,509 --> 00:13:42,880
and i'm actually i'm doing some work on

356
00:13:47,189 --> 00:13:45,519
brad steiger right now so really yeah

357
00:13:48,790 --> 00:13:47,199
you had posted that thing where steiner

358
00:13:50,389 --> 00:13:48,800
had listed out you know the different

359
00:13:52,949 --> 00:13:50,399
like potential

360
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:52,959
origins ufo and that and i was like oh

361
00:13:57,350 --> 00:13:55,519
this is going to keep me up way too late

362
00:13:58,790 --> 00:13:57,360
i'm glad somebody likes that because i

363
00:14:03,430 --> 00:13:58,800
love the

364
00:14:05,189 --> 00:14:03,440
everything about the past i'm really

365
00:14:06,550 --> 00:14:05,199
from the past somehow i haven't figured

366
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:06,560
out how yet but

367
00:14:09,910 --> 00:14:08,320
i'm i'm definitely from a mid-century

368
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:09,920
time i feel like

369
00:14:15,189 --> 00:14:13,199
but i love everything about it um

370
00:14:17,910 --> 00:14:15,199
what i wanted to you know what i'd like

371
00:14:20,150 --> 00:14:17,920
to ask is you know it seems like the

372
00:14:24,550 --> 00:14:20,160
with the variety of different kinds of

373
00:14:26,790 --> 00:14:24,560
files and speakers that were there um

374
00:14:28,870 --> 00:14:26,800
that it feel

375
00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:28,880
cohesive you know

376
00:14:32,069 --> 00:14:30,240
as you know a lot of the different

377
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:32,079
categories and topics can kind of seem

378
00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:33,360
separate from one another in the

379
00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:35,120
community you know when you're putting

380
00:14:38,230 --> 00:14:37,120
that all together like that how did it

381
00:14:41,910 --> 00:14:38,240
come together

382
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:44,069
david david would you like to tackle

383
00:14:48,790 --> 00:14:46,320
that one first yeah real real quickly um

384
00:14:51,189 --> 00:14:48,800
i'd actually mentioned this to uh

385
00:14:52,230 --> 00:14:51,199
jeff kreipel after the event

386
00:14:54,949 --> 00:14:52,240
but

387
00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:54,959
he curated and the team you know tim

388
00:14:58,949 --> 00:14:56,880
grieve carlson learned

389
00:15:00,949 --> 00:14:58,959
foot and

390
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:00,959
cameron hammond and all the people that

391
00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:02,639
were involved with kind of organizing

392
00:15:06,150 --> 00:15:03,920
this thing

393
00:15:07,910 --> 00:15:06,160
um they curated

394
00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:07,920
a group of people

395
00:15:11,189 --> 00:15:09,680
um you know

396
00:15:13,750 --> 00:15:11,199
the attendees who weren't part of the

397
00:15:15,110 --> 00:15:13,760
panels and the speaking in that as well

398
00:15:17,430 --> 00:15:15,120
you know people who were just attracted

399
00:15:18,550 --> 00:15:17,440
to this but the people you know from

400
00:15:20,389 --> 00:15:18,560
just the

401
00:15:22,629 --> 00:15:20,399
end of people that you know either gave

402
00:15:24,550 --> 00:15:22,639
a plenary or were on a panel they were

403
00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:24,560
all just genuine

404
00:15:29,189 --> 00:15:26,880
really nice good people

405
00:15:31,030 --> 00:15:29,199
um and it was you know it was kind of

406
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:31,040
like a

407
00:15:35,590 --> 00:15:33,360
cross-section of all of these different

408
00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:35,600
areas where there really wasn't

409
00:15:39,590 --> 00:15:37,680
you know even if you didn't

410
00:15:40,949 --> 00:15:39,600
if you you know you'd have top-level

411
00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:40,959
people that

412
00:15:44,310 --> 00:15:42,560
obviously they're so in-depth you know

413
00:15:46,150 --> 00:15:44,320
these areas you can just dive into and

414
00:15:46,870 --> 00:15:46,160
it's your whole lifetime of study right

415
00:15:48,870 --> 00:15:46,880
but

416
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:48,880
everybody was willing to kind of talk

417
00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:50,480
across lines

418
00:15:54,069 --> 00:15:52,320
understand each other and really just be

419
00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:54,079
together and just kind of enjoy this

420
00:15:59,350 --> 00:15:56,160
moment you know i think that and that

421
00:16:01,670 --> 00:15:59,360
was just and that is in large part

422
00:16:03,590 --> 00:16:01,680
what jeff does for this you know this

423
00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:03,600
field i'll say because you know in terms

424
00:16:07,509 --> 00:16:05,920
of just the whole kind of circle that

425
00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:07,519
we're all within

426
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:09,839
um jeff really curates

427
00:16:13,670 --> 00:16:10,800
uh

428
00:16:15,829 --> 00:16:13,680
just good people you know um my friend

429
00:16:17,829 --> 00:16:15,839
stephen finley was there he runs the

430
00:16:19,749 --> 00:16:17,839
african studies program at louisiana

431
00:16:21,990 --> 00:16:19,759
state university

432
00:16:23,430 --> 00:16:22,000
and i met him through jeff and i was

433
00:16:25,110 --> 00:16:23,440
aware of his work beforehand but

434
00:16:26,230 --> 00:16:25,120
actually had a chance to to meet him and

435
00:16:29,110 --> 00:16:26,240
talk to him

436
00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:29,120
marcus red who was on our panel um just

437
00:16:34,069 --> 00:16:31,839
amazing you know everybody just

438
00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:34,079
all the people there it was i mean and

439
00:16:36,949 --> 00:16:35,600
that was shown in the fact that you know

440
00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:36,959
after hours

441
00:16:39,590 --> 00:16:38,480
it didn't necessarily break up into

442
00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:39,600
clicks

443
00:16:43,990 --> 00:16:41,360
you know i mean people would go and just

444
00:16:46,470 --> 00:16:44,000
hang out with whoever um and have

445
00:16:47,829 --> 00:16:46,480
natural conversations and that so or at

446
00:16:50,949 --> 00:16:47,839
breakfast when you're too tired to

447
00:16:54,150 --> 00:16:50,959
really be human you know

448
00:16:56,550 --> 00:16:54,160
be able to just be like a groggy um slug

449
00:17:02,230 --> 00:16:56,560
you know in front of strangers

450
00:17:06,789 --> 00:17:04,870
that sounds awesome what about you jake

451
00:17:08,630 --> 00:17:06,799
yeah absolutely it did feel really

452
00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:08,640
cohesive i think one of the

453
00:17:14,390 --> 00:17:11,520
reasons it did was as david put it

454
00:17:18,230 --> 00:17:14,400
because jeff does such a thoughtful job

455
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:18,240
um i heard somebody refer to

456
00:17:26,309 --> 00:17:22,240
that like what jeff does in academia for

457
00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:26,319
the paranormal and for ufology and he

458
00:17:31,029 --> 00:17:28,319
likes to kind of throw out big words and

459
00:17:32,549 --> 00:17:31,039
so for this one you know the impossible

460
00:17:35,430 --> 00:17:32,559
he wrote a book called authors of the

461
00:17:37,350 --> 00:17:35,440
impossible um that covered keel and

462
00:17:39,190 --> 00:17:37,360
ballet and folks like that and now the

463
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:39,200
archives of the impossible so it's a

464
00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:41,280
nice way to have a catch-all term

465
00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:44,480
that that that people can grab

466
00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:45,280
and

467
00:17:49,270 --> 00:17:47,280
doesn't get too much too too far into

468
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:49,280
the weeds and also tethers it to

469
00:17:52,150 --> 00:17:50,480
religious studies it's kind of a

470
00:17:54,549 --> 00:17:52,160
brilliant way to put it

471
00:17:57,270 --> 00:17:54,559
um but i heard him referred to as

472
00:17:58,549 --> 00:17:57,280
captain america's shield at one point

473
00:18:00,870 --> 00:17:58,559
and i thought that that was really

474
00:18:03,270 --> 00:18:00,880
interesting because he's like kind of

475
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:03,280
willing to take a lot of fire from

476
00:18:05,270 --> 00:18:04,559
people

477
00:18:08,710 --> 00:18:05,280
and

478
00:18:11,270 --> 00:18:08,720
he's totally happy

479
00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:11,280
doing it it seems or at the very least

480
00:18:14,549 --> 00:18:13,679
he's tolerant of doing it so that other

481
00:18:17,029 --> 00:18:14,559
people

482
00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:17,039
can kind of be academically protected in

483
00:18:20,710 --> 00:18:18,000
a way

484
00:18:23,350 --> 00:18:20,720
and and bolstered by the work that he's

485
00:18:24,789 --> 00:18:23,360
doing and so then they feel comfortable

486
00:18:26,230 --> 00:18:24,799
kind of coming out of their shell and

487
00:18:29,110 --> 00:18:26,240
doing the same thing

488
00:18:31,990 --> 00:18:29,120
or in their own way and so

489
00:18:34,310 --> 00:18:32,000
he um he has this new book he was

490
00:18:36,390 --> 00:18:34,320
primarily lecturing the first night

491
00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:36,400
and kind of giving the opening talk talk

492
00:18:39,430 --> 00:18:37,840
he has a new book coming out called

493
00:18:42,549 --> 00:18:39,440
super humanities

494
00:18:44,710 --> 00:18:42,559
um where he kind of

495
00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:44,720
i think from what i gathered though i

496
00:18:48,310 --> 00:18:46,559
haven't read the book yet of course is

497
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:48,320
that he really wants

498
00:18:52,230 --> 00:18:50,480
this to be kind of embedded back into

499
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:52,240
the humanities i heard him saying

500
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:54,240
talking about how

501
00:18:58,310 --> 00:18:56,400
you know from an academic framework one

502
00:19:01,669 --> 00:18:58,320
of the problems in academia is that it

503
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:01,679
it like a lot of conversations it turns

504
00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:04,320
into what's trendy to talk about

505
00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:06,640
you know that that in academia that's a

506
00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:08,880
real huge issue is that

507
00:19:13,190 --> 00:19:11,280
that you know there's just like suit

508
00:19:15,029 --> 00:19:13,200
jackets or whatever that there's trendy

509
00:19:17,830 --> 00:19:15,039
jargon there's trendy topics there's

510
00:19:20,710 --> 00:19:17,840
trendy religions even to just kind of

511
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:20,720
you know pick up and look at like a like

512
00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:22,320
a gem or something like that you know

513
00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:24,799
sure and examine

514
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:25,679
and

515
00:19:29,270 --> 00:19:27,200
one thing that he was talking about is

516
00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:29,280
how it's been trendy for a long time

517
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:31,280
within academia to

518
00:19:34,630 --> 00:19:33,600
look at these at look at paranormal

519
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:34,640
events

520
00:19:38,789 --> 00:19:35,760
and that

521
00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:38,799
they were a seen as impossible or just

522
00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:41,440
myth or legendary and that they were

523
00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:44,720
often used by religious institutions and

524
00:19:49,909 --> 00:19:47,440
way back in the day by shamans and

525
00:19:51,430 --> 00:19:49,919
and community leaders um as a way to

526
00:19:53,430 --> 00:19:51,440
wield power

527
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:53,440
right that that was one of the primary

528
00:19:58,310 --> 00:19:56,000
criticisms of these things is that they

529
00:20:00,710 --> 00:19:58,320
were they were these made up stories

530
00:20:01,510 --> 00:20:00,720
that were they were used by

531
00:20:02,549 --> 00:20:01,520
by

532
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:02,559
um

533
00:20:07,510 --> 00:20:05,280
by religious leaders to subjugate people

534
00:20:09,110 --> 00:20:07,520
basically and that that was kind of like

535
00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:09,120
a dominant critique

536
00:20:12,710 --> 00:20:10,720
and that that was a very dominant

537
00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:12,720
critique within philosophy and religious

538
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:14,400
studies specifically and i'm sure other

539
00:20:16,710 --> 00:20:15,840
fields as well

540
00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:16,720
and i thought that that was an

541
00:20:22,149 --> 00:20:19,520
interesting point you know and that that

542
00:20:23,270 --> 00:20:22,159
he made there and that him trying to say

543
00:20:25,750 --> 00:20:23,280
you know

544
00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:25,760
well the reality is is that these things

545
00:20:30,950 --> 00:20:28,720
do happen you know it's you know it's an

546
00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:30,960
inconvenient truth that it does happen

547
00:20:35,430 --> 00:20:33,200
and that that's part of the tether that

548
00:20:37,750 --> 00:20:35,440
united all these things where you know

549
00:20:40,230 --> 00:20:37,760
ufologist and a remote viewer it doesn't

550
00:20:42,630 --> 00:20:40,240
seem so far away because of people like

551
00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:42,640
ingo and hal put off and stuff like that

552
00:20:46,870 --> 00:20:44,720
however you know there are people that

553
00:20:49,350 --> 00:20:46,880
look at leslie kane as if she's got two

554
00:20:51,830 --> 00:20:49,360
heads because she approaches ufology and

555
00:20:53,430 --> 00:20:51,840
mediumship but that's not all that weird

556
00:20:54,870 --> 00:20:53,440
when you actually get down to a

557
00:20:56,070 --> 00:20:54,880
conference like that and you talk to

558
00:20:57,510 --> 00:20:56,080
people

559
00:20:59,669 --> 00:20:57,520
you know at one point i was having a

560
00:21:00,789 --> 00:20:59,679
long conversation with whitley strieber

561
00:21:02,470 --> 00:21:00,799
and

562
00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:02,480
you know he was a couple hennessey's

563
00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:03,919
then and

564
00:21:07,909 --> 00:21:06,720
we were we were chatting and and

565
00:21:09,430 --> 00:21:07,919
and

566
00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:09,440
i kind of stopped him for a second

567
00:21:12,149 --> 00:21:10,799
because of what we were talking about

568
00:21:14,149 --> 00:21:12,159
right here right then and i said you

569
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:14,159
know if if people know one thing about

570
00:21:20,470 --> 00:21:18,000
me it might be the whole alien abductee

571
00:21:22,149 --> 00:21:20,480
thing and if people know anything about

572
00:21:24,390 --> 00:21:22,159
you whitley it's certainly the alien

573
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:24,400
abductee thing uh but we're talking

574
00:21:29,350 --> 00:21:25,930
about sasquatch stories right now

575
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:29,360
[Laughter]

576
00:21:32,870 --> 00:21:30,960
and we had a good laugh about that it

577
00:21:36,070 --> 00:21:32,880
was pretty awesome you know you bring up

578
00:21:39,430 --> 00:21:36,080
a great point uh about uh you know

579
00:21:42,390 --> 00:21:39,440
uh religions and in in using those type

580
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:42,400
of events as a control mechanism where i

581
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:45,120
always kind of you know look at fear as

582
00:21:48,789 --> 00:21:46,960
the control mechanism but i guess they

583
00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:48,799
could use those events to instill the

584
00:21:52,789 --> 00:21:49,600
fear

585
00:21:55,270 --> 00:21:52,799
and and control you so to speak um

586
00:21:57,430 --> 00:21:55,280
but it's also interesting on how you

587
00:21:59,830 --> 00:21:57,440
know these things just happen

588
00:22:01,909 --> 00:21:59,840
you know and that's just how it is and

589
00:22:04,710 --> 00:22:01,919
it's interesting to see

590
00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:04,720
how the different aspects of humanity

591
00:22:08,630 --> 00:22:06,720
deal with that truth

592
00:22:10,149 --> 00:22:08,640
and mold it

593
00:22:12,710 --> 00:22:10,159
or not mold it

594
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:12,720
you know to use to their benefit or

595
00:22:16,230 --> 00:22:14,960
or not you know um

596
00:22:18,390 --> 00:22:16,240
so it

597
00:22:21,029 --> 00:22:18,400
you know like religious studies so to

598
00:22:21,909 --> 00:22:21,039
speak will use that of the events like

599
00:22:24,789 --> 00:22:21,919
that

600
00:22:27,669 --> 00:22:24,799
you know to control people or to use

601
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:27,679
that uh you know kind of awe-inspiring

602
00:22:33,110 --> 00:22:30,240
feeling you can get sometimes from you

603
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:33,120
know a spiritual awakening type of event

604
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:35,760
and and to keep you in and you know some

605
00:22:40,870 --> 00:22:38,880
people just look at it as it is so

606
00:22:41,830 --> 00:22:40,880
you know to hear that it's

607
00:22:44,230 --> 00:22:41,840
you know

608
00:22:46,549 --> 00:22:44,240
being looked at so seriously at rice

609
00:22:48,710 --> 00:22:46,559
and and that this event happened

610
00:22:51,909 --> 00:22:48,720
um is really great because i think if

611
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:51,919
anything we have to you know unshackle

612
00:22:58,230 --> 00:22:54,799
uh the the mysteries in the events from

613
00:23:00,950 --> 00:22:58,240
any type of uh human control system and

614
00:23:02,470 --> 00:23:00,960
look at it uh for what it is uh what

615
00:23:03,430 --> 00:23:02,480
what it provides or what it doesn't

616
00:23:04,310 --> 00:23:03,440
provide

617
00:23:06,470 --> 00:23:04,320
um

618
00:23:08,710 --> 00:23:06,480
and look at it baseline like that at

619
00:23:10,470 --> 00:23:08,720
least in my opinion so so when i see

620
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:10,480
that happening i think it's pretty cool

621
00:23:15,830 --> 00:23:13,679
um david do you do you see this

622
00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:15,840
type of event changing the way the topic

623
00:23:19,750 --> 00:23:17,840
is studied in the future

624
00:23:21,510 --> 00:23:19,760
um and if so

625
00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:21,520
i'm sorry i'll go for

626
00:23:23,830 --> 00:23:22,720
if so

627
00:23:25,909 --> 00:23:23,840
yeah

628
00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:25,919
so

629
00:23:29,350 --> 00:23:27,840
you know and uh well in one way i mean

630
00:23:31,270 --> 00:23:29,360
you mentioned rice but you know there

631
00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:31,280
were folks from harvard there

632
00:23:36,470 --> 00:23:34,320
um there were folks from university of

633
00:23:38,950 --> 00:23:36,480
north carolina there are people there

634
00:23:40,870 --> 00:23:38,960
from louisiana state university

635
00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:40,880
um a bunch of different you know

636
00:23:44,710 --> 00:23:42,640
universities that

637
00:23:46,149 --> 00:23:44,720
you wouldn't necessarily expect

638
00:23:47,190 --> 00:23:46,159
this kind of thing to be discussed but

639
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:47,200
they're all

640
00:23:50,710 --> 00:23:48,880
scholars that are looking at these

641
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:50,720
topics and publishing on them in

642
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:52,080
peer-reviewed

643
00:23:57,269 --> 00:23:54,320
journals you know that uh

644
00:23:59,510 --> 00:23:57,279
sort of holy grail of academia the peer

645
00:24:01,110 --> 00:23:59,520
review you know and getting these topics

646
00:24:02,310 --> 00:24:01,120
into the peer review

647
00:24:06,789 --> 00:24:02,320
um

648
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:06,799
to do that doesn't necessarily mean that

649
00:24:09,909 --> 00:24:08,640
the research is better

650
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:09,919
uh

651
00:24:13,590 --> 00:24:12,240
but it does mean that it's entering a

652
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:13,600
different

653
00:24:19,269 --> 00:24:16,640
system

654
00:24:21,430 --> 00:24:19,279
um and i think that that it's important

655
00:24:23,990 --> 00:24:21,440
because there's a lot of tools there

656
00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:24,000
and i think that um one of the the

657
00:24:27,990 --> 00:24:25,760
things about

658
00:24:31,110 --> 00:24:28,000
a conference this big

659
00:24:33,269 --> 00:24:31,120
at rice with this many people involved

660
00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:33,279
is it shows the kind of resources which

661
00:24:36,870 --> 00:24:35,200
are coming around this topic which

662
00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:36,880
haven't necessarily been there for

663
00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:38,320
people who want to go

664
00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:39,600
in depth with scholar you know

665
00:24:43,990 --> 00:24:41,760
scholarship they're you know having like

666
00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:44,000
a full-time job getting home and like

667
00:24:47,430 --> 00:24:45,360
plowing through the books like not

668
00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:47,440
everybody wants to do that or you know

669
00:24:50,870 --> 00:24:49,840
travel and going places meeting people

670
00:24:53,269 --> 00:24:50,880
you know

671
00:24:54,870 --> 00:24:53,279
um so this i think this is a step

672
00:24:57,110 --> 00:24:54,880
forward and kind of showing that there

673
00:24:59,510 --> 00:24:57,120
are resources starting to be available

674
00:25:01,269 --> 00:24:59,520
to sort of coordinate that more and open

675
00:25:02,950 --> 00:25:01,279
the door for that you know

676
00:25:05,190 --> 00:25:02,960
and also you know

677
00:25:06,630 --> 00:25:05,200
the just like jay was saying like

678
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:06,640
having a conversation with lilly

679
00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:08,559
streeper about sasquatch

680
00:25:12,830 --> 00:25:10,720
you know i mean that that kind of thing

681
00:25:15,750 --> 00:25:12,840
is um it's

682
00:25:19,029 --> 00:25:15,760
happening more broadly where these

683
00:25:20,870 --> 00:25:19,039
topics are now becoming media silos

684
00:25:21,909 --> 00:25:20,880
right like it's not just like bigfoot

685
00:25:23,669 --> 00:25:21,919
people

686
00:25:25,269 --> 00:25:23,679
and they have their conferences and they

687
00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:25,279
have their books and they only talk

688
00:25:29,750 --> 00:25:27,520
about bigfoot and it's all you know that

689
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:29,760
and ufo people over here and then

690
00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:31,919
there's parapsychologists over here you

691
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:33,600
know there was a

692
00:25:38,070 --> 00:25:35,919
a moment in the 70s where all these

693
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:38,080
things kind of started to blend and it

694
00:25:44,549 --> 00:25:41,200
actually was kind of always there um but

695
00:25:47,110 --> 00:25:44,559
always since like 1947 at kenneth arnold

696
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:47,120
and the whole mediation of the ufo thing

697
00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:49,760
um a lot of the early stuff was a blend

698
00:25:53,029 --> 00:25:50,880
of

699
00:25:56,870 --> 00:25:53,039
psychical research and you know

700
00:25:59,669 --> 00:25:56,880
cryptozoology and uh you know

701
00:26:01,350 --> 00:25:59,679
the ufology and all of that and it sort

702
00:26:02,789 --> 00:26:01,360
of then got siloed

703
00:26:05,350 --> 00:26:02,799
and then i think you know when social

704
00:26:06,870 --> 00:26:05,360
media though it's decentralized it also

705
00:26:09,110 --> 00:26:06,880
kind of allows people to get in their

706
00:26:11,430 --> 00:26:09,120
clicks and sort of sit and hover and

707
00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:11,440
boundary you know watch the boundaries

708
00:26:15,990 --> 00:26:13,440
and keep other people out but i think

709
00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:16,000
what's starting to happen is that those

710
00:26:18,870 --> 00:26:17,760
boundaries are breaking you know or

711
00:26:21,269 --> 00:26:18,880
breaking down

712
00:26:24,230 --> 00:26:21,279
they're dissolving and

713
00:26:25,990 --> 00:26:24,240
conversations like happened at rice you

714
00:26:27,830 --> 00:26:26,000
know show this kind of this kind of

715
00:26:31,029 --> 00:26:27,840
bridging that's happening

716
00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:31,039
um john phillip uh santos

717
00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:33,440
who was one of the plenary speakers he's

718
00:26:38,470 --> 00:26:35,039
a rhodes scholar

719
00:26:39,750 --> 00:26:38,480
and his his talk was on the borderlands

720
00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:39,760
you know and that the kind of like

721
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:42,320
fruitfulness of the borderlands

722
00:26:45,430 --> 00:26:44,080
specifically for him

723
00:26:47,990 --> 00:26:45,440
you know it's the borderlands between

724
00:26:50,470 --> 00:26:48,000
mexico and the united states and kind of

725
00:26:52,549 --> 00:26:50,480
the rich cultural history of blending of

726
00:26:55,269 --> 00:26:52,559
cultures that happens there

727
00:26:57,510 --> 00:26:55,279
and the sort of power of the mestizo

728
00:26:59,990 --> 00:26:57,520
right like the power of the mix

729
00:27:01,029 --> 00:27:00,000
and i think that that um

730
00:27:02,070 --> 00:27:01,039
that

731
00:27:03,990 --> 00:27:02,080
talk

732
00:27:05,590 --> 00:27:04,000
really encapsulates and that concept

733
00:27:07,830 --> 00:27:05,600
really encapsulates what was happening

734
00:27:10,149 --> 00:27:07,840
at rice which was you know it was in

735
00:27:12,630 --> 00:27:10,159
this borderland space

736
00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:12,640
that was being opened up as the space

737
00:27:16,710 --> 00:27:14,640
right right now it's not it's the

738
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:16,720
borderland of the center you know where

739
00:27:19,830 --> 00:27:18,240
all of these things are coming together

740
00:27:21,269 --> 00:27:19,840
and starting to have this beautiful

741
00:27:23,669 --> 00:27:21,279
conversation

742
00:27:25,990 --> 00:27:23,679
yeah very interesting it's like becoming

743
00:27:29,029 --> 00:27:26,000
you know more about just what it is to

744
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:29,039
be human versus a race or an individual

745
00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:31,919
and and hear what it is to you know be i

746
00:27:36,310 --> 00:27:34,720
don't know paranormal versus you know

747
00:27:41,590 --> 00:27:36,320
ufo or

748
00:27:45,909 --> 00:27:43,430
absolutely i like that

749
00:27:46,830 --> 00:27:45,919
and um yeah along those lines you know

750
00:27:50,230 --> 00:27:46,840
um

751
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:50,240
diana in her talk diana pasalka in her

752
00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:51,120
talk

753
00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:53,760
she was making case for

754
00:27:57,990 --> 00:27:55,600
the idea that kind of

755
00:27:59,909 --> 00:27:58,000
as we've known for a while there was the

756
00:28:02,630 --> 00:27:59,919
pre-2017

757
00:28:05,669 --> 00:28:02,640
view of all this and then as many of us

758
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:05,679
kind of demarcate 2017 as a banner year

759
00:28:10,549 --> 00:28:07,840
because of those new york times stories

760
00:28:13,269 --> 00:28:10,559
that leslie and ralph blumenthal

761
00:28:15,029 --> 00:28:13,279
and helene cooper wrote

762
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:15,039
and how that opened really opened the

763
00:28:20,789 --> 00:28:17,840
door to the larger conversation how it

764
00:28:23,430 --> 00:28:20,799
kind of has grown even past those

765
00:28:25,510 --> 00:28:23,440
ufological terrains and people were able

766
00:28:28,389 --> 00:28:25,520
to look back at leslie's work and other

767
00:28:30,789 --> 00:28:28,399
work um in in this kind of a way

768
00:28:33,990 --> 00:28:30,799
but she was saying she was making a case

769
00:28:35,830 --> 00:28:34,000
for okay 2017 to 2021

770
00:28:36,789 --> 00:28:35,840
this was kind of

771
00:28:39,269 --> 00:28:36,799
the

772
00:28:41,909 --> 00:28:39,279
in between years we're kind of moving

773
00:28:45,269 --> 00:28:41,919
into a different space right and she

774
00:28:48,070 --> 00:28:45,279
says now she's asked to do peer review

775
00:28:50,149 --> 00:28:48,080
and ask to look at a lot of academic

776
00:28:52,149 --> 00:28:50,159
work that's coming out books that are

777
00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:52,159
coming out papers that are coming out

778
00:28:58,870 --> 00:28:54,880
and she says you know because my book

779
00:29:01,029 --> 00:28:58,880
title had ufo in it for american cosmic

780
00:29:03,269 --> 00:29:01,039
you know she's like because it was right

781
00:29:05,350 --> 00:29:03,279
there i just get sent all this stuff and

782
00:29:06,630 --> 00:29:05,360
she's like you have no idea the

783
00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:06,640
avalanche

784
00:29:11,830 --> 00:29:09,520
of of books and academic papers that are

785
00:29:13,350 --> 00:29:11,840
coming out over the next year or two

786
00:29:15,669 --> 00:29:13,360
that are that are

787
00:29:17,190 --> 00:29:15,679
from respected people that have been

788
00:29:18,950 --> 00:29:17,200
some of them have been quietly doing

789
00:29:20,630 --> 00:29:18,960
this for a long time and now they're

790
00:29:23,830 --> 00:29:20,640
finally able to

791
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:23,840
get it over you know right and and so

792
00:29:28,549 --> 00:29:26,960
she was making a case that that you know

793
00:29:30,149 --> 00:29:28,559
jacques valet coined the term the

794
00:29:32,389 --> 00:29:30,159
invisible college

795
00:29:34,870 --> 00:29:32,399
back in the 70s and she's saying okay

796
00:29:36,710 --> 00:29:34,880
now we're dealing with divisible college

797
00:29:37,590 --> 00:29:36,720
now now we're in the visible college

798
00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:37,600
days

799
00:29:43,909 --> 00:29:39,600
and this is going to be a new period of

800
00:29:45,909 --> 00:29:43,919
time and i love the the unsiloing

801
00:29:46,630 --> 00:29:45,919
as you know as david was kind of putting

802
00:29:48,789 --> 00:29:46,640
it

803
00:29:51,669 --> 00:29:48,799
one another person that we were on a

804
00:29:54,789 --> 00:29:51,679
panel with was marcus red and and he

805
00:29:56,310 --> 00:29:54,799
deals with african cosmologies and

806
00:29:57,269 --> 00:29:56,320
esotericism

807
00:29:58,950 --> 00:29:57,279
and

808
00:30:02,630 --> 00:29:58,960
it was really cool just having a chat

809
00:30:04,950 --> 00:30:02,640
with them off to the side um and

810
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:04,960
you know out of pure self-interest i was

811
00:30:10,789 --> 00:30:07,360
like so

812
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:10,799
giant bug creatures from the sky

813
00:30:15,430 --> 00:30:12,640
in african myths

814
00:30:16,789 --> 00:30:15,440
do they happen you know things like that

815
00:30:17,909 --> 00:30:16,799
and him just kind of sitting there and

816
00:30:21,269 --> 00:30:17,919
going well

817
00:30:23,190 --> 00:30:21,279
actually yes and you know and and

818
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:23,200
we're having great conversations with

819
00:30:26,230 --> 00:30:24,880
him he's gonna he's gonna do an

820
00:30:27,029 --> 00:30:26,240
experience or group

821
00:30:29,590 --> 00:30:27,039
um

822
00:30:31,750 --> 00:30:29,600
uh ask me anything session soon so

823
00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:31,760
that'll be awesome i mean we should we

824
00:30:35,830 --> 00:30:33,200
should even have him on here that'd be

825
00:30:38,789 --> 00:30:35,840
awesome he's got so many cool stories um

826
00:30:40,230 --> 00:30:38,799
and wonderful wonderful guy

827
00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:40,240
and uh

828
00:30:42,710 --> 00:30:41,440
you know i

829
00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:42,720
speaking of the experiencer group

830
00:30:47,669 --> 00:30:44,640
another cool thing about this

831
00:30:49,990 --> 00:30:47,679
um is that it was the first time that so

832
00:30:51,510 --> 00:30:50,000
many experiencer group members were able

833
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:51,520
to get together in person for the first

834
00:30:54,710 --> 00:30:53,360
time which is absent cool since the

835
00:30:57,669 --> 00:30:54,720
beginning of the experiencer group which

836
00:31:00,149 --> 00:30:57,679
is amazing uh i think there were there

837
00:31:01,830 --> 00:31:00,159
were at least 13 and i think they were

838
00:31:04,070 --> 00:31:01,840
closer to 15

839
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:04,080
members that i know of that were there

840
00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:06,240
and so out of a conference group of only

841
00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:08,799
about 100 110 people

842
00:31:11,990 --> 00:31:09,760
um

843
00:31:14,950 --> 00:31:12,000
it was they were those were really great

844
00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:14,960
numbers and so there was there was

845
00:31:21,830 --> 00:31:18,960
no lack of of community just within our

846
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:21,840
group of 100 to 110 but then kind of

847
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:23,440
going off to the side and being able to

848
00:31:28,389 --> 00:31:25,440
hang out with these people that i've

849
00:31:30,549 --> 00:31:28,399
i've been in support meetings and amas

850
00:31:33,029 --> 00:31:30,559
and like long conversations with book

851
00:31:35,509 --> 00:31:33,039
groups for this whole time has been it's

852
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:35,519
and actually be able to give them hugs

853
00:31:38,870 --> 00:31:37,840
and hug back and everything like that

854
00:31:44,230 --> 00:31:38,880
was

855
00:31:46,710 --> 00:31:44,240
not just that but just the community in

856
00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:46,720
general i mean it really felt

857
00:31:51,350 --> 00:31:49,200
there's the his historicism of the

858
00:31:54,630 --> 00:31:51,360
archive and what jeff is doing down

859
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:54,640
there and and the constellation of names

860
00:31:57,110 --> 00:31:56,240
of people that are

861
00:31:59,669 --> 00:31:57,120
that are

862
00:32:01,990 --> 00:31:59,679
kind of coming together like

863
00:32:04,389 --> 00:32:02,000
like voltron or something like that

864
00:32:06,310 --> 00:32:04,399
to work on these things and then and

865
00:32:08,070 --> 00:32:06,320
then there's also the element where

866
00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:08,080
we've all been pinned up

867
00:32:12,310 --> 00:32:10,320
you know back at our homes for this

868
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:12,320
whole time and for me it was the first

869
00:32:15,190 --> 00:32:14,399
event big event like that that i've been

870
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:15,200
to

871
00:32:18,549 --> 00:32:16,080
since

872
00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:18,559
uh march 2020 i think it was for david

873
00:32:22,870 --> 00:32:20,480
as well and it was for a lot of people

874
00:32:24,950 --> 00:32:22,880
down there and it just it was so wild to

875
00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:24,960
just be able to like

876
00:32:29,909 --> 00:32:27,440
to just touch a person that you'd only

877
00:32:33,190 --> 00:32:29,919
met minutes beforehand and then it felt

878
00:32:35,029 --> 00:32:33,200
okay you know what i mean in this

879
00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:35,039
socially appropriate way

880
00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:37,760
you know all of that was incredible

881
00:32:41,990 --> 00:32:39,600
um

882
00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:42,000
yeah i mean i just went out to a public

883
00:32:46,149 --> 00:32:44,240
restaurant for the first time in forever

884
00:32:47,190 --> 00:32:46,159
so i i know what you mean

885
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:47,200
um

886
00:32:49,830 --> 00:32:48,240
you know it's interesting that you

887
00:32:51,029 --> 00:32:49,840
mentioned the invisible college and

888
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:51,039
while you're talking about that i'm

889
00:32:54,149 --> 00:32:52,559
thinking like

890
00:32:57,110 --> 00:32:54,159
yeah he um

891
00:32:59,190 --> 00:32:57,120
he might have coined the term um but

892
00:33:01,350 --> 00:32:59,200
actually i mean that's been

893
00:33:03,350 --> 00:33:01,360
really around since you know

894
00:33:05,110 --> 00:33:03,360
the mid 1600s

895
00:33:07,430 --> 00:33:05,120
and so

896
00:33:08,710 --> 00:33:07,440
like the importance of it is almost even

897
00:33:10,389 --> 00:33:08,720
more

898
00:33:11,669 --> 00:33:10,399
of a big deal like

899
00:33:14,310 --> 00:33:11,679
i mean that's

900
00:33:16,950 --> 00:33:14,320
people studying philosophical stuff and

901
00:33:18,470 --> 00:33:16,960
and all that like in in corners or

902
00:33:20,149 --> 00:33:18,480
basements or you know away from

903
00:33:22,230 --> 00:33:20,159
everybody afraid to talk about it in

904
00:33:23,190 --> 00:33:22,240
public because a lot of people look at

905
00:33:24,870 --> 00:33:23,200
it and

906
00:33:26,310 --> 00:33:24,880
you know here we are doing it at

907
00:33:28,549 --> 00:33:26,320
academic college with some of the

908
00:33:30,630 --> 00:33:28,559
smartest people in the world

909
00:33:32,710 --> 00:33:30,640
um i'm you know

910
00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:32,720
taking this on and you know not

911
00:33:36,310 --> 00:33:34,240
apologizing

912
00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:36,320
either you know just

913
00:33:39,029 --> 00:33:37,360
um

914
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:39,039
which is really great for people to be

915
00:33:42,070 --> 00:33:41,360
confident with it like that so

916
00:33:44,710 --> 00:33:42,080
yeah

917
00:33:45,509 --> 00:33:44,720
to that not apologizing point

918
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:45,519
um

919
00:33:49,269 --> 00:33:48,240
a couple of the uh the folks who were

920
00:33:50,710 --> 00:33:49,279
there

921
00:33:53,909 --> 00:33:50,720
who um

922
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:53,919
you know they were academics

923
00:33:58,549 --> 00:33:56,000
but they were coming from having looked

924
00:34:01,110 --> 00:33:58,559
at this stuff in academia right

925
00:34:02,710 --> 00:34:01,120
versus kind of what jeff is fostering

926
00:34:05,430 --> 00:34:02,720
which is

927
00:34:09,109 --> 00:34:05,440
you're in academia but you're living it

928
00:34:11,270 --> 00:34:09,119
you know um and they were like

929
00:34:13,349 --> 00:34:11,280
so so this is different you know like

930
00:34:15,669 --> 00:34:13,359
this is a different a different kind of

931
00:34:18,069 --> 00:34:15,679
feel you know like they weren't they

932
00:34:20,470 --> 00:34:18,079
were they went from outside observer you

933
00:34:21,589 --> 00:34:20,480
know or maybe like ethnography

934
00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:21,599
and like

935
00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:24,240
in group out group like getting into a

936
00:34:28,790 --> 00:34:26,560
group that kind of thing to being like

937
00:34:31,190 --> 00:34:28,800
thrown into the pool you know

938
00:34:32,869 --> 00:34:31,200
um where it was alive and

939
00:34:35,109 --> 00:34:32,879
i mean one of the things

940
00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:35,119
when you get that many people

941
00:34:37,829 --> 00:34:36,480
together

942
00:34:40,149 --> 00:34:37,839
that are

943
00:34:42,629 --> 00:34:40,159
living in this right

944
00:34:44,629 --> 00:34:42,639
you the synchronicities kick up you know

945
00:34:46,869 --> 00:34:44,639
the coincidences kick up

946
00:34:49,829 --> 00:34:46,879
the just kind of resonance of all of

947
00:34:51,109 --> 00:34:49,839
that happening starts to really sort of

948
00:34:52,869 --> 00:34:51,119
spin around

949
00:34:54,629 --> 00:34:52,879
and people who aren't used to that are

950
00:34:56,710 --> 00:34:54,639
suddenly like oh this is real you know

951
00:34:58,550 --> 00:34:56,720
like this does i'm not just studying at

952
00:35:01,510 --> 00:34:58,560
that subject in a book like there's a

953
00:35:02,710 --> 00:35:01,520
reality here that goes beyond

954
00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:02,720
you know looking at it so it was

955
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:04,880
interesting to me you know some folks

956
00:35:08,790 --> 00:35:06,640
that that had come from that like just

957
00:35:11,349 --> 00:35:08,800
purely academic and you know i mean they

958
00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:11,359
had they've done ethnographies and that

959
00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:14,320
kind of thing so they weren't totally

960
00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:17,200
um outside that right super nice but

961
00:35:22,390 --> 00:35:20,400
like at the same time they hadn't been

962
00:35:24,310 --> 00:35:22,400
put into the pool yet and so this was

963
00:35:26,230 --> 00:35:24,320
their like stepping into the pool and

964
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:26,240
going oh wow you know

965
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:27,920
it's almost you know putting your

966
00:35:32,790 --> 00:35:30,560
emotions into your in you know

967
00:35:34,870 --> 00:35:32,800
connecting the emotions to the studies

968
00:35:37,349 --> 00:35:34,880
you've been working on almost

969
00:35:38,950 --> 00:35:37,359
or you know a physicalness which you can

970
00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:38,960
only do by probably doing something like

971
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:42,160
that you know i can't that must be very

972
00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:44,880
eye-opening for for someone

973
00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:46,560
i would imagine

974
00:35:50,310 --> 00:35:48,560
i agree about the synchronicities lining

975
00:35:52,069 --> 00:35:50,320
up it was wild well first of all mike

976
00:35:54,470 --> 00:35:52,079
clelland was there

977
00:35:56,630 --> 00:35:54,480
my clone who wrote the messengers and he

978
00:35:59,270 --> 00:35:56,640
went and i asked him if he'd come on the

979
00:36:01,589 --> 00:35:59,280
show by the way sean so sweet uh he's

980
00:36:04,310 --> 00:36:01,599
he's driving back awesome to seattle

981
00:36:06,790 --> 00:36:04,320
right now um but cool that guy you know

982
00:36:08,870 --> 00:36:06,800
he's written a series of books on ufos

983
00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:08,880
yeah um owl encounters and other

984
00:36:12,550 --> 00:36:10,640
paranormal animal encounters and

985
00:36:15,030 --> 00:36:12,560
synchronicities and

986
00:36:17,910 --> 00:36:15,040
so he's kind of

987
00:36:19,750 --> 00:36:17,920
he's like uh he's like a six foot one

988
00:36:21,430 --> 00:36:19,760
lucky rabbit's foot when it comes to

989
00:36:24,470 --> 00:36:21,440
synchronicities and synchronicity

990
00:36:27,750 --> 00:36:24,480
finding but um one of the nights i think

991
00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:27,760
it's friday night yeah uh okay so

992
00:36:33,030 --> 00:36:31,119
this um this great woman analisa ventola

993
00:36:35,750 --> 00:36:33,040
she's the executive director of the

994
00:36:37,910 --> 00:36:35,760
parapsychological association all right

995
00:36:39,750 --> 00:36:37,920
great lady and she um

996
00:36:42,630 --> 00:36:39,760
and she was having trouble sleeping all

997
00:36:44,230 --> 00:36:42,640
right she had she was moderating a panel

998
00:36:46,710 --> 00:36:44,240
the next day that was like the

999
00:36:49,510 --> 00:36:46,720
experiencers panel okay and that tells

1000
00:36:51,670 --> 00:36:49,520
you almost how big this event was

1001
00:36:54,550 --> 00:36:51,680
i was on a panel i was not on the

1002
00:36:56,950 --> 00:36:54,560
experiencers panel that's how in the

1003
00:36:58,790 --> 00:36:56,960
weeds we were with this

1004
00:37:02,310 --> 00:36:58,800
which is awesome we were deep in the

1005
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:02,320
woods it was awesome and so analisa

1006
00:37:05,829 --> 00:37:04,320
um she's running the experiencer panel

1007
00:37:07,510 --> 00:37:05,839
the next day it was called experience

1008
00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:07,520
thing impossible and she was having

1009
00:37:12,069 --> 00:37:09,839
trouble sleeping um which i can attest

1010
00:37:14,710 --> 00:37:12,079
to because i was asked on thursday to

1011
00:37:16,790 --> 00:37:14,720
replace stuart davis on the panel that i

1012
00:37:19,109 --> 00:37:16,800
was on with david and he's on the show

1013
00:37:22,390 --> 00:37:19,119
tomorrow by the way yeah oh yeah yeah

1014
00:37:25,190 --> 00:37:22,400
yeah and so and so you know what

1015
00:37:27,990 --> 00:37:25,200
i if you want to stay up all night you

1016
00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:28,000
know find out 48 hours ahead of time or

1017
00:37:32,069 --> 00:37:30,240
72 hours ahead of time that you're

1018
00:37:34,710 --> 00:37:32,079
gonna be talking about

1019
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:34,720
wild stuff in front of valet and all

1020
00:37:37,349 --> 00:37:36,560
these people like it's

1021
00:37:41,750 --> 00:37:37,359
it's

1022
00:37:43,750 --> 00:37:41,760
there's a lot uh that goes into that

1023
00:37:45,030 --> 00:37:43,760
like i wanted to go public but this is

1024
00:37:46,870 --> 00:37:45,040
uh

1025
00:37:50,230 --> 00:37:46,880
but this is ridiculous

1026
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:50,240
yeah and so but this is impossible so um

1027
00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:52,320
so anna lisa

1028
00:37:56,069 --> 00:37:54,240
she comes down and we're hanging out at

1029
00:37:58,310 --> 00:37:56,079
the the hotel lounge many of us were

1030
00:38:00,950 --> 00:37:58,320
staying at the same hotel and so we were

1031
00:38:03,670 --> 00:38:00,960
having an informal experiencer group

1032
00:38:05,030 --> 00:38:03,680
meet up and so there was a table of i

1033
00:38:08,470 --> 00:38:05,040
don't know eight or nine of us at the

1034
00:38:10,550 --> 00:38:08,480
time and analisa comes down no idea who

1035
00:38:13,030 --> 00:38:10,560
any of us are no idea whatsoever she

1036
00:38:16,150 --> 00:38:13,040
just recognizes us from the conference

1037
00:38:18,630 --> 00:38:16,160
and she can't sleep because she doesn't

1038
00:38:20,790 --> 00:38:18,640
know how to frame the experiencer panel

1039
00:38:22,550 --> 00:38:20,800
the next day and she was like her first

1040
00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:22,560
words were i don't know who any of you

1041
00:38:27,109 --> 00:38:24,400
people are but can i sit down and drink

1042
00:38:28,390 --> 00:38:27,119
with you and we were like absolutely

1043
00:38:31,750 --> 00:38:28,400
and so

1044
00:38:34,069 --> 00:38:31,760
synchronicities go she she wandered

1045
00:38:35,670 --> 00:38:34,079
downstairs she she had this weird

1046
00:38:37,829 --> 00:38:35,680
thought to go downstairs and she would

1047
00:38:39,670 --> 00:38:37,839
find her answer there right now a lot of

1048
00:38:41,750 --> 00:38:39,680
people would suggest

1049
00:38:44,470 --> 00:38:41,760
that finding an answer at a bar is a

1050
00:38:48,310 --> 00:38:44,480
pretty typical human response for how to

1051
00:38:50,390 --> 00:38:48,320
go about doing something um and but um

1052
00:38:51,829 --> 00:38:50,400
but it was really magical you know and

1053
00:38:53,990 --> 00:38:51,839
she was kind of hanging out there and

1054
00:38:56,950 --> 00:38:54,000
then and um

1055
00:38:58,150 --> 00:38:56,960
and leslie and whitley joined us and and

1056
00:38:59,990 --> 00:38:58,160
a couple other people were really

1057
00:39:01,910 --> 00:39:00,000
encouraging her she was like i kind of

1058
00:39:03,349 --> 00:39:01,920
want to lean away from the experiences

1059
00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:03,359
maybe we can talk about something a

1060
00:39:07,990 --> 00:39:05,359
little bit more academic i don't know

1061
00:39:10,550 --> 00:39:08,000
but i want to talk about the experiences

1062
00:39:13,270 --> 00:39:10,560
you know and we're like lean into it man

1063
00:39:15,349 --> 00:39:13,280
it'll be awesome and she did and

1064
00:39:17,670 --> 00:39:15,359
and she took it in wild ways that we

1065
00:39:19,430 --> 00:39:17,680
couldn't even imagine so yeah there were

1066
00:39:20,790 --> 00:39:19,440
so many cool synchronicities in the way

1067
00:39:22,230 --> 00:39:20,800
things lined up

1068
00:39:24,310 --> 00:39:22,240
and um

1069
00:39:26,069 --> 00:39:24,320
it was beautiful it was as if like those

1070
00:39:27,510 --> 00:39:26,079
interpersonal synchronicities had been

1071
00:39:28,630 --> 00:39:27,520
saving themselves

1072
00:39:29,829 --> 00:39:28,640
you know

1073
00:39:32,710 --> 00:39:29,839
and some and

1074
00:39:33,910 --> 00:39:32,720
for for in real life for the irl you

1075
00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:33,920
know

1076
00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:34,720
yeah

1077
00:39:38,790 --> 00:39:36,720
the first day that we

1078
00:39:41,109 --> 00:39:38,800
did a real quick one with mike clelland

1079
00:39:43,030 --> 00:39:41,119
um the first day that we got there or

1080
00:39:45,349 --> 00:39:43,040
that i got there um

1081
00:39:47,589 --> 00:39:45,359
i met up with eric and we were just

1082
00:39:50,069 --> 00:39:47,599
walking around huge like the campus area

1083
00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:50,079
and stuff we ended up running into

1084
00:39:55,190 --> 00:39:52,800
um jeff kreifel we talked for a little

1085
00:39:56,470 --> 00:39:55,200
bit and then my clown came up and so we

1086
00:39:58,710 --> 00:39:56,480
talked to mike for a little bit and then

1087
00:40:01,190 --> 00:39:58,720
mike and jeff like went to the

1088
00:40:03,670 --> 00:40:01,200
event the venue and eric and i wanted to

1089
00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:03,680
go see the exhibit at the fondren

1090
00:40:08,230 --> 00:40:05,280
because they had these exhibits set up

1091
00:40:09,910 --> 00:40:08,240
um kind of showcasing the archive so we

1092
00:40:12,790 --> 00:40:09,920
walked over there and as we're

1093
00:40:14,150 --> 00:40:12,800
approaching where the the fondren is we

1094
00:40:15,910 --> 00:40:14,160
hear an owl

1095
00:40:17,430 --> 00:40:15,920
like up in the trees and it's like broad

1096
00:40:19,109 --> 00:40:17,440
daylight right like in the middle of

1097
00:40:21,030 --> 00:40:19,119
campus and we're like

1098
00:40:22,470 --> 00:40:21,040
i was like eric is that an owl and he

1099
00:40:24,309 --> 00:40:22,480
was like no i don't think it's an owl

1100
00:40:26,309 --> 00:40:24,319
and he like listens he's like that's an

1101
00:40:28,069 --> 00:40:26,319
owl and i was like i know he's like we

1102
00:40:30,150 --> 00:40:28,079
just heard an owl i was like yeah and

1103
00:40:31,589 --> 00:40:30,160
it's we just met mike so of course we

1104
00:40:32,710 --> 00:40:31,599
did you know

1105
00:40:36,790 --> 00:40:32,720
so

1106
00:40:39,750 --> 00:40:36,800
to these owls and don't hey what is your

1107
00:40:42,230 --> 00:40:39,760
deal what are you doing

1108
00:40:45,109 --> 00:40:42,240
oh i i see great people in the chat by

1109
00:40:46,390 --> 00:40:45,119
the way like john davies and kirsten

1110
00:40:48,069 --> 00:40:46,400
kirsten blackburn and a whole bunch of

1111
00:40:49,910 --> 00:40:48,079
people that were at the conference

1112
00:40:52,150 --> 00:40:49,920
actually so that's cool to see

1113
00:40:53,990 --> 00:40:52,160
um thanks everybody for being here yeah

1114
00:40:57,109 --> 00:40:54,000
and you know

1115
00:40:59,430 --> 00:40:57,119
it's it's awesome yeah i to further that

1116
00:41:01,430 --> 00:40:59,440
i would say if anybody doesn't believe

1117
00:41:03,510 --> 00:41:01,440
in wild synchronicities and that they

1118
00:41:06,470 --> 00:41:03,520
occur you should just like get a pair of

1119
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:06,480
handcuffs find mike clelland just chain

1120
00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:08,319
yourself to mike clelland for like three

1121
00:41:11,990 --> 00:41:10,640
days and see see what you think at the

1122
00:41:13,829 --> 00:41:12,000
end of three days

1123
00:41:15,910 --> 00:41:13,839
um that's it that's interesting though

1124
00:41:17,030 --> 00:41:15,920
mike's gonna hate that idea but i think

1125
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:17,040
it's great

1126
00:41:21,430 --> 00:41:19,040
that's an interesting topic because to

1127
00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:21,440
some extent you know there's kind of

1128
00:41:26,790 --> 00:41:23,520
this blurry line of being

1129
00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:26,800
open to the synchronicities and you know

1130
00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:29,040
making one that doesn't exist almost you

1131
00:41:33,589 --> 00:41:31,440
know or does it and and either trusting

1132
00:41:35,750 --> 00:41:33,599
it or writing it off and what should you

1133
00:41:38,069 --> 00:41:35,760
do with it you know that's always

1134
00:41:40,230 --> 00:41:38,079
uh kind of interesting

1135
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:40,240
to me you know like i sometimes i'll

1136
00:41:44,309 --> 00:41:42,079
find myself i'm like am i connecting

1137
00:41:47,910 --> 00:41:44,319
dots that don't necessarily

1138
00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:47,920
you know connect or do they

1139
00:41:53,990 --> 00:41:52,240
you know um but you know it sounds like

1140
00:41:55,829 --> 00:41:54,000
you know and from what i hear at least

1141
00:41:58,230 --> 00:41:55,839
in the things i've read it's like the

1142
00:42:01,030 --> 00:41:58,240
more people that are kind of open to

1143
00:42:02,550 --> 00:42:01,040
those lines of communication whoever

1144
00:42:03,910 --> 00:42:02,560
whatever is communicating

1145
00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:03,920
are together

1146
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:06,640
you know the the kind of more enunciated

1147
00:42:10,470 --> 00:42:08,720
it is i guess or emphasized

1148
00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:10,480
uh the synchronicities are and are

1149
00:42:15,589 --> 00:42:13,680
probably harder to you know um

1150
00:42:19,589 --> 00:42:15,599
just scoff at i guess

1151
00:42:21,270 --> 00:42:19,599
yeah or yeah explain away but um

1152
00:42:22,870 --> 00:42:21,280
i guess

1153
00:42:24,950 --> 00:42:22,880
how do you how do you guys deal with

1154
00:42:27,430 --> 00:42:24,960
synchronicities when when is it

1155
00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:27,440
meaningful to you when is it like

1156
00:42:31,990 --> 00:42:29,520
i can't spend time thinking about this

1157
00:42:35,030 --> 00:42:34,309
uh david why don't you go up first yeah

1158
00:42:42,829 --> 00:42:35,040
i

1159
00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:42,839
loop stuff

1160
00:42:48,230 --> 00:42:45,599
um and

1161
00:42:48,990 --> 00:42:48,240
he's very strong on synchronicity is

1162
00:42:51,750 --> 00:42:49,000
being

1163
00:42:53,190 --> 00:42:51,760
misrecognized precognition

1164
00:42:54,550 --> 00:42:53,200
um just

1165
00:42:55,430 --> 00:42:54,560
which

1166
00:42:57,109 --> 00:42:55,440
you know you can think of

1167
00:42:59,190 --> 00:42:57,119
synchronicities and like depending on

1168
00:43:00,870 --> 00:42:59,200
the the sort of thickness of this

1169
00:43:02,870 --> 00:43:00,880
synchronicity that seems like a weird

1170
00:43:04,390 --> 00:43:02,880
kind of thing because stuff can happen

1171
00:43:06,230 --> 00:43:04,400
that doesn't quite seem like it would

1172
00:43:08,309 --> 00:43:06,240
just be precognition

1173
00:43:09,910 --> 00:43:08,319
um and i'm sure eric could explain much

1174
00:43:13,030 --> 00:43:09,920
better than i can why it would be

1175
00:43:15,829 --> 00:43:13,040
pre-cognition but the thing i kind of

1176
00:43:18,309 --> 00:43:15,839
uh enjoy about eric's

1177
00:43:19,430 --> 00:43:18,319
ideas is that

1178
00:43:22,309 --> 00:43:19,440
he's

1179
00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:22,319
very much of a mind that like

1180
00:43:28,069 --> 00:43:24,400
these things are ultimately meaningless

1181
00:43:29,829 --> 00:43:28,079
in a certain way right in the terms of

1182
00:43:31,030 --> 00:43:29,839
kind of like

1183
00:43:33,109 --> 00:43:31,040
it's not like a choose your own

1184
00:43:34,630 --> 00:43:33,119
adventure you know

1185
00:43:38,870 --> 00:43:34,640
he's a lot more

1186
00:43:40,470 --> 00:43:38,880
that you know like zaza and like just

1187
00:43:42,630 --> 00:43:40,480
sit with it right like just sit with

1188
00:43:44,550 --> 00:43:42,640
these things and let it kind of steep

1189
00:43:46,309 --> 00:43:44,560
um and i really like

1190
00:43:48,069 --> 00:43:46,319
you know part of my my

1191
00:43:50,550 --> 00:43:48,079
research is on

1192
00:43:52,470 --> 00:43:50,560
things like all grocery store gramas

1193
00:43:54,630 --> 00:43:52,480
where there's exorcism manuals that you

1194
00:43:56,790 --> 00:43:54,640
can pick up in walmart like legitimate

1195
00:43:59,510 --> 00:43:56,800
like this is how you do an exorcism

1196
00:44:01,349 --> 00:43:59,520
um there's gas station dream books right

1197
00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:01,359
that are dream books for lottery they're

1198
00:44:06,230 --> 00:44:04,000
available in gas stations across the u.s

1199
00:44:07,829 --> 00:44:06,240
um i really like the mundane stuff you

1200
00:44:10,230 --> 00:44:07,839
know the everyday stuff like i don't

1201
00:44:13,589 --> 00:44:10,240
need like an epic adventure you know

1202
00:44:15,990 --> 00:44:13,599
like i'm fascinated by everyday magic so

1203
00:44:18,550 --> 00:44:16,000
um for me you know with synchronicities

1204
00:44:21,190 --> 00:44:18,560
and that like i just enjoy being in them

1205
00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:21,200
um and enjoy just kind of it's like a

1206
00:44:26,069 --> 00:44:23,760
conversation with with reality you know

1207
00:44:28,230 --> 00:44:26,079
right it is yeah you know

1208
00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:28,240
so that's kind of how i that's how i

1209
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:29,200
take them

1210
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:30,960
almost like a joke like when it happens

1211
00:44:34,150 --> 00:44:32,800
like ah that's clever yeah yeah like

1212
00:44:35,589 --> 00:44:34,160
that's a good you know that sometimes

1213
00:44:37,109 --> 00:44:35,599
i'll actually say like that's a good one

1214
00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:37,119
like that was good that was i

1215
00:44:40,950 --> 00:44:38,800
appreciated the

1216
00:44:43,430 --> 00:44:40,960
twist on this one

1217
00:44:44,550 --> 00:44:43,440
absolutely and i think i think one of

1218
00:44:54,309 --> 00:44:44,560
the

1219
00:44:57,190 --> 00:44:54,319
a joke is because it's telling you

1220
00:44:59,589 --> 00:44:57,200
to not take consensus reality too

1221
00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:59,599
seriously and it's telling you to not

1222
00:45:04,230 --> 00:45:00,480
take

1223
00:45:06,470 --> 00:45:04,240
our fundamental understanding of the

1224
00:45:08,950 --> 00:45:06,480
space-time continuum or

1225
00:45:11,349 --> 00:45:08,960
or the objects in front of us

1226
00:45:12,550 --> 00:45:11,359
as being too fixed in a way because

1227
00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:12,560
sometimes something like that will

1228
00:45:16,870 --> 00:45:14,880
happen you'll be like you know i

1229
00:45:18,950 --> 00:45:16,880
i've i've tried to deny them i've spent

1230
00:45:21,750 --> 00:45:18,960
whole years trying to be

1231
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:21,760
you know a rational atheist despite my

1232
00:45:25,990 --> 00:45:23,520
experiences and stuff like that and it

1233
00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:26,000
was a total failure you know what i mean

1234
00:45:28,950 --> 00:45:28,160
but and partly because of things like

1235
00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:28,960
that

1236
00:45:34,390 --> 00:45:32,240
fundamental reasons why the kind of

1237
00:45:35,990 --> 00:45:34,400
unsiloing and bringing together these

1238
00:45:37,990 --> 00:45:36,000
disparate elements

1239
00:45:39,750 --> 00:45:38,000
why it really fundamentally works

1240
00:45:41,910 --> 00:45:39,760
because there's so much more power when

1241
00:45:44,069 --> 00:45:41,920
you look at all of the different

1242
00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:44,079
variables and all of the different data

1243
00:45:48,790 --> 00:45:46,800
points and how much overlap there is

1244
00:45:50,470 --> 00:45:48,800
you know because there are so many i

1245
00:45:51,430 --> 00:45:50,480
mean so many of the people that were

1246
00:45:54,069 --> 00:45:51,440
there

1247
00:45:56,069 --> 00:45:54,079
are either public experiencers or

1248
00:45:58,390 --> 00:45:56,079
they're not public experiencers and

1249
00:45:59,349 --> 00:45:58,400
there's a there was a hefty amount of

1250
00:46:01,030 --> 00:45:59,359
both

1251
00:46:02,069 --> 00:46:01,040
and and

1252
00:46:03,990 --> 00:46:02,079
the

1253
00:46:04,790 --> 00:46:04,000
you know

1254
00:46:08,630 --> 00:46:04,800
it

1255
00:46:11,670 --> 00:46:08,640
times you know how many

1256
00:46:15,270 --> 00:46:11,680
how many multiple modality experiences

1257
00:46:17,430 --> 00:46:15,280
there are and how it's very difficult to

1258
00:46:19,109 --> 00:46:17,440
actually put these into fine categories

1259
00:46:20,870 --> 00:46:19,119
sometimes despite

1260
00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:20,880
you know the the nuts and bolts people

1261
00:46:25,510 --> 00:46:23,040
or there's people in every single wing

1262
00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:25,520
of the any of these field that only want

1263
00:46:30,309 --> 00:46:28,480
to talk about mediumship or they only

1264
00:46:32,870 --> 00:46:30,319
want to talk about physical mediumship

1265
00:46:33,750 --> 00:46:32,880
or they only want to talk about

1266
00:46:34,630 --> 00:46:33,760
you know

1267
00:46:39,430 --> 00:46:34,640
big

1268
00:46:41,109 --> 00:46:39,440
as being just all they are is like a

1269
00:46:43,990 --> 00:46:41,119
weird creature that we don't understand

1270
00:46:44,710 --> 00:46:44,000
and but they exist or whatever it is

1271
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:44,720
right

1272
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:46,800
and then you get together as you were

1273
00:46:50,309 --> 00:46:48,640
saying earlier all these people together

1274
00:46:51,750 --> 00:46:50,319
and then we we have to talk about all

1275
00:46:54,390 --> 00:46:51,760
this stuff but there's so much more

1276
00:46:56,870 --> 00:46:54,400
power to it that way right because yeah

1277
00:46:59,030 --> 00:46:56,880
did my grandma did my grandma really

1278
00:46:59,990 --> 00:46:59,040
believe in aliens coming down from outer

1279
00:47:01,750 --> 00:47:00,000
space

1280
00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:01,760
not really did she believe in

1281
00:47:07,109 --> 00:47:04,560
synchronicities hell [\h__\h] yashy did

1282
00:47:11,510 --> 00:47:09,030
and it's one of the ways that you can

1283
00:47:13,829 --> 00:47:11,520
really kind of address the dialogue in a

1284
00:47:16,309 --> 00:47:13,839
wider way even outside of academia i

1285
00:47:19,670 --> 00:47:16,319
think and and that's partially where

1286
00:47:21,510 --> 00:47:19,680
this really attains power within family

1287
00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:21,520
structures and social groups and things

1288
00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:22,720
like that

1289
00:47:26,790 --> 00:47:24,480
and breaking down that that divide too

1290
00:47:28,230 --> 00:47:26,800
between academia and outside of academia

1291
00:47:29,670 --> 00:47:28,240
you know i mean that's

1292
00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:29,680
um

1293
00:47:34,790 --> 00:47:32,400
i've known diana since 2000 diana uh

1294
00:47:37,430 --> 00:47:34,800
sulka since 2016

1295
00:47:40,630 --> 00:47:37,440
and seeing her

1296
00:47:42,549 --> 00:47:40,640
um try to bridge that that divide you

1297
00:47:43,910 --> 00:47:42,559
know um and try to hold that

1298
00:47:45,829 --> 00:47:43,920
conversation

1299
00:47:48,390 --> 00:47:45,839
right has been really

1300
00:47:49,510 --> 00:47:48,400
interesting harrowing at points you know

1301
00:47:51,430 --> 00:47:49,520
um

1302
00:47:53,829 --> 00:47:51,440
trying because she really you know

1303
00:47:55,750 --> 00:47:53,839
played a kind of a nexus point for all

1304
00:47:57,109 --> 00:47:55,760
these different conversations that were

1305
00:47:59,670 --> 00:47:57,119
being had

1306
00:48:02,230 --> 00:47:59,680
and um you know

1307
00:48:03,750 --> 00:48:02,240
seeing that that seeing a conference

1308
00:48:05,829 --> 00:48:03,760
like this where that starts to break you

1309
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:05,839
know those walls are coming down is

1310
00:48:09,510 --> 00:48:08,160
awesome you know and being able to

1311
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:09,520
to have

1312
00:48:13,829 --> 00:48:11,760
you know to because academia it is sort

1313
00:48:16,390 --> 00:48:13,839
of a it can be an ivory tower you know i

1314
00:48:22,870 --> 00:48:16,400
mean it can be abstract and it can be

1315
00:48:25,270 --> 00:48:22,880
distant and and strange and kind of um

1316
00:48:27,829 --> 00:48:25,280
i don't know i mean it's intimidating

1317
00:48:30,150 --> 00:48:27,839
almost intimidating and also from the

1318
00:48:31,990 --> 00:48:30,160
from like from the academia and it can

1319
00:48:36,470 --> 00:48:32,000
be very voyeuristic

1320
00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:36,480
to experiences and to uh like real life

1321
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:38,160
you know um

1322
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:39,760
and it was nice to see that that that

1323
00:48:43,030 --> 00:48:40,880
wasn't

1324
00:48:45,190 --> 00:48:43,040
in play here you know that that was that

1325
00:48:47,589 --> 00:48:45,200
was kind of broken down

1326
00:48:52,390 --> 00:48:50,390
yeah i see in the i totally agree with

1327
00:48:55,109 --> 00:48:52,400
you david along those lines jonathan

1328
00:48:57,510 --> 00:48:55,119
davies in the chat uh john davies who we

1329
00:48:59,589 --> 00:48:57,520
both know i think david um

1330
00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:59,599
uh john davies asked what was the

1331
00:49:03,670 --> 00:49:01,440
official purpose of the rice conference

1332
00:49:05,670 --> 00:49:03,680
and what was the real reason for doing

1333
00:49:08,150 --> 00:49:05,680
it and i think that that's pretty

1334
00:49:10,150 --> 00:49:08,160
that's a pretty bright question because

1335
00:49:12,230 --> 00:49:10,160
you're right i think there was more to

1336
00:49:14,150 --> 00:49:12,240
it than that i mean this official stated

1337
00:49:15,190 --> 00:49:14,160
reason was celebrating

1338
00:49:19,430 --> 00:49:15,200
the

1339
00:49:22,549 --> 00:49:19,440
that this archive of whitley's files and

1340
00:49:24,470 --> 00:49:22,559
jox files and other files um brenda

1341
00:49:25,910 --> 00:49:24,480
dinsler's files other files

1342
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:25,920
where we're

1343
00:49:28,870 --> 00:49:26,640
um

1344
00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:28,880
we're being put together and

1345
00:49:35,349 --> 00:49:32,400
and um treated as important historical

1346
00:49:37,270 --> 00:49:35,359
documents right and so and being able to

1347
00:49:39,430 --> 00:49:37,280
release those to the public was kind of

1348
00:49:41,109 --> 00:49:39,440
the stated reason celebrating that

1349
00:49:43,349 --> 00:49:41,119
bringing some of the people

1350
00:49:44,390 --> 00:49:43,359
associated with that together

1351
00:49:45,670 --> 00:49:44,400
um

1352
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:45,680
and so

1353
00:49:48,950 --> 00:49:47,200
for example

1354
00:49:50,710 --> 00:49:48,960
um leslie

1355
00:49:52,470 --> 00:49:50,720
kane donated

1356
00:49:55,109 --> 00:49:52,480
some work of

1357
00:49:56,790 --> 00:49:55,119
of stuart alexander who's a medium that

1358
00:49:59,990 --> 00:49:56,800
she's worked with for a while and i

1359
00:50:02,150 --> 00:50:00,000
think she also helped negotiate the

1360
00:50:04,790 --> 00:50:02,160
narcap files because she used to be an

1361
00:50:05,750 --> 00:50:04,800
art cap person um

1362
00:50:07,109 --> 00:50:05,760
and so

1363
00:50:09,349 --> 00:50:07,119
you know that would be kind of the

1364
00:50:11,510 --> 00:50:09,359
stated reason why leslie might be

1365
00:50:13,910 --> 00:50:11,520
invited to this event and then but

1366
00:50:16,230 --> 00:50:13,920
beyond that you know leslie and jeff

1367
00:50:17,670 --> 00:50:16,240
worked together quite a lot and

1368
00:50:19,910 --> 00:50:17,680
you know they were both

1369
00:50:22,390 --> 00:50:19,920
they were both judges for the bigelow

1370
00:50:27,430 --> 00:50:22,400
consciousness studies um

1371
00:50:29,430 --> 00:50:27,440
event recently and as i recall um one of

1372
00:50:31,589 --> 00:50:29,440
was it julie bishop

1373
00:50:33,510 --> 00:50:31,599
and she she's one of the directors of

1374
00:50:34,390 --> 00:50:33,520
the windbridge research center where you

1375
00:50:39,270 --> 00:50:34,400
you're

1376
00:50:43,589 --> 00:50:41,109
scholar virtual residency is at the

1377
00:50:46,230 --> 00:50:43,599
windbridge institute which is

1378
00:50:47,990 --> 00:50:46,240
uh the sort of parent body of the

1379
00:50:49,829 --> 00:50:48,000
windbridge research center there there's

1380
00:50:52,069 --> 00:50:49,839
different but yeah she uh she's a

1381
00:50:55,109 --> 00:50:52,079
founder of that and one of the leading

1382
00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:55,119
researchers um in mediumship right now

1383
00:51:00,549 --> 00:50:56,880
and she was one of the

1384
00:51:01,510 --> 00:51:00,559
the winners of the bigelow contest

1385
00:51:06,950 --> 00:51:01,520
and

1386
00:51:09,190 --> 00:51:06,960
directors um actually has been running

1387
00:51:10,549 --> 00:51:09,200
this really interesting ai experiment

1388
00:51:13,829 --> 00:51:10,559
program called like the throne of the

1389
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:13,839
sphinx right really interesting stuff so

1390
00:51:18,710 --> 00:51:16,480
so um you know so there are kind of

1391
00:51:20,309 --> 00:51:18,720
stated reasons why they're why these are

1392
00:51:22,950 --> 00:51:20,319
happening but as you can see there are

1393
00:51:23,990 --> 00:51:22,960
these these kind of tendrils and these

1394
00:51:26,549 --> 00:51:24,000
and these

1395
00:51:28,630 --> 00:51:26,559
secret and not so secret invisible

1396
00:51:30,470 --> 00:51:28,640
college-like lines that you can find

1397
00:51:32,230 --> 00:51:30,480
between people that sometimes go back

1398
00:51:33,910 --> 00:51:32,240
decades you know some of the people that

1399
00:51:36,710 --> 00:51:33,920
were there have known each other since

1400
00:51:38,150 --> 00:51:36,720
this since the 70s or even before

1401
00:51:41,030 --> 00:51:38,160
and some of the and in some of these

1402
00:51:43,270 --> 00:51:41,040
cases it was also an occasion for some

1403
00:51:45,349 --> 00:51:43,280
of these uh folks to meet each other for

1404
00:51:48,150 --> 00:51:45,359
the first time you know which is which

1405
00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:48,160
was super wild there's this great guy uh

1406
00:51:53,510 --> 00:51:51,520
kloss svan who uh a swedish dude that

1407
00:51:56,950 --> 00:51:53,520
that runs um

1408
00:52:00,150 --> 00:51:56,960
this enormous archive of largely

1409
00:52:01,190 --> 00:52:00,160
ufological but not entirely ufological

1410
00:52:02,230 --> 00:52:01,200
um

1411
00:52:04,790 --> 00:52:02,240
uh

1412
00:52:07,829 --> 00:52:04,800
historical documentation in sweden lots

1413
00:52:09,750 --> 00:52:07,839
of case histories tons of ufo books

1414
00:52:11,750 --> 00:52:09,760
stuff like this and

1415
00:52:13,270 --> 00:52:11,760
um it was the first time that he was

1416
00:52:15,030 --> 00:52:13,280
meeting a lot of these people and it was

1417
00:52:16,870 --> 00:52:15,040
the first time that i had certainly

1418
00:52:17,670 --> 00:52:16,880
heard of his archive

1419
00:52:19,430 --> 00:52:17,680
and

1420
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:19,440
so there were there

1421
00:52:22,630 --> 00:52:20,400
it was

1422
00:52:24,790 --> 00:52:22,640
not just kind of slapping each other on

1423
00:52:26,710 --> 00:52:24,800
the back for things that have come in

1424
00:52:28,549 --> 00:52:26,720
the past but it was certainly laying

1425
00:52:30,150 --> 00:52:28,559
great groundwork for what's coming up in

1426
00:52:32,950 --> 00:52:30,160
the future i think

1427
00:52:34,390 --> 00:52:32,960
yeah what archive that is that uh that

1428
00:52:36,870 --> 00:52:34,400
you're talking about

1429
00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:36,880
it's the archive for the unexplained in

1430
00:52:44,230 --> 00:52:42,710
yeah i think i got a lot of stuff from

1431
00:52:47,109 --> 00:52:44,240
there i think they have a lot of

1432
00:52:50,549 --> 00:52:47,119
australian ufo files and

1433
00:52:52,390 --> 00:52:50,559
um i got like the list of uh

1434
00:52:54,790 --> 00:52:52,400
blue book all the blue book

1435
00:52:56,870 --> 00:52:54,800
chronological sightings and all that

1436
00:52:58,230 --> 00:52:56,880
from there unredacted and all that kind

1437
00:52:59,750 --> 00:52:58,240
of stuff yeah this is

1438
00:53:02,470 --> 00:52:59,760
it's a great resource

1439
00:53:04,549 --> 00:53:02,480
yeah i kept wanting to talk to class but

1440
00:53:06,710 --> 00:53:04,559
and because i was i was really psyched

1441
00:53:08,470 --> 00:53:06,720
about afu and i think everybody he had

1442
00:53:11,109 --> 00:53:08,480
this great video where he was showing

1443
00:53:13,349 --> 00:53:11,119
off and you know they'll be uploaded um

1444
00:53:15,750 --> 00:53:13,359
to the rice youtube soon

1445
00:53:17,349 --> 00:53:15,760
all these lectures and panels so you'll

1446
00:53:20,150 --> 00:53:17,359
get to see me

1447
00:53:21,829 --> 00:53:20,160
um with this and and david kind of

1448
00:53:25,190 --> 00:53:21,839
looking like this and in front of

1449
00:53:26,829 --> 00:53:25,200
jacques and everybody and leslie

1450
00:53:29,670 --> 00:53:26,839
i can't wait

1451
00:53:33,190 --> 00:53:29,680
actually you know

1452
00:53:36,790 --> 00:53:35,589
david i didn't mean i didn't uh want you

1453
00:53:38,470 --> 00:53:36,800
to forget what you were going to say or

1454
00:53:40,950 --> 00:53:38,480
your point you were going to say

1455
00:53:43,190 --> 00:53:40,960
so there's always room to celebrate the

1456
00:53:44,549 --> 00:53:43,200
archive in sweden is awesome um i was

1457
00:53:46,710 --> 00:53:44,559
going to say with the the question of

1458
00:53:49,190 --> 00:53:46,720
you know the stated versus the the

1459
00:53:51,990 --> 00:53:49,200
unstated sort of meaning behind this

1460
00:53:54,549 --> 00:53:52,000
i think that um

1461
00:53:56,230 --> 00:53:54,559
the you know as i said before academia

1462
00:53:58,309 --> 00:53:56,240
and universities and that have a lot of

1463
00:54:02,390 --> 00:53:58,319
resources at hand

1464
00:54:05,990 --> 00:54:03,910
put to

1465
00:54:07,829 --> 00:54:06,000
the deeper questions of life

1466
00:54:09,910 --> 00:54:07,839
and i think that this was an opportunity

1467
00:54:11,190 --> 00:54:09,920
to use the resources of a major

1468
00:54:12,950 --> 00:54:11,200
university

1469
00:54:14,950 --> 00:54:12,960
to bring people together to have these

1470
00:54:17,430 --> 00:54:14,960
conversations and to do stuff like this

1471
00:54:19,829 --> 00:54:17,440
right like um sean i didn't know you

1472
00:54:22,390 --> 00:54:19,839
before this you know and jay and i met

1473
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:22,400
in person and we've seen each other's

1474
00:54:25,349 --> 00:54:24,000
you know tweets and stuff like that

1475
00:54:27,270 --> 00:54:25,359
that's totally different than having a

1476
00:54:29,829 --> 00:54:27,280
conversation you know

1477
00:54:30,549 --> 00:54:29,839
um and i know that post conference i've

1478
00:54:32,470 --> 00:54:30,559
met

1479
00:54:34,870 --> 00:54:32,480
so many different people

1480
00:54:37,589 --> 00:54:34,880
um just from having gone to that you

1481
00:54:40,950 --> 00:54:37,599
know and had opportunities you know um

1482
00:54:42,390 --> 00:54:40,960
i've co-authored a paper with diana

1483
00:54:44,549 --> 00:54:42,400
uh pazulka

1484
00:54:47,910 --> 00:54:44,559
and we've had the opportunity to meet

1485
00:54:49,750 --> 00:54:47,920
once in real life you know prior to this

1486
00:54:51,430 --> 00:54:49,760
so this was an opportunity to see her

1487
00:54:53,670 --> 00:54:51,440
again you know and i mentioned other

1488
00:54:56,069 --> 00:54:53,680
folks that i you know had the

1489
00:54:58,630 --> 00:54:56,079
opportunity to meet paul uh

1490
00:55:00,870 --> 00:54:58,640
paul smith the army remote viewer we've

1491
00:55:02,390 --> 00:55:00,880
talked forever online kind of like you

1492
00:55:03,990 --> 00:55:02,400
know just back and forth comments and

1493
00:55:06,069 --> 00:55:04,000
stuff like that this was an opportunity

1494
00:55:08,150 --> 00:55:06,079
to have dinner with him and to sit there

1495
00:55:09,510 --> 00:55:08,160
and kind of hang out with him and talk

1496
00:55:11,910 --> 00:55:09,520
to him you know as a person

1497
00:55:13,510 --> 00:55:11,920
[Music]

1498
00:55:15,510 --> 00:55:13,520
about remote viewing or something you

1499
00:55:17,670 --> 00:55:15,520
know there's there's feelings there

1500
00:55:20,309 --> 00:55:17,680
there's an energy there's a there's a

1501
00:55:22,470 --> 00:55:20,319
vibe but they're you know a human aura

1502
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:22,480
so to speak that you just can't

1503
00:55:27,990 --> 00:55:25,680
um pick up over the internet but you can

1504
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:28,000
soak up in person and you can feel it

1505
00:55:32,829 --> 00:55:30,240
it's tangible you know and that has a

1506
00:55:35,589 --> 00:55:32,839
lot to do with who you're talking to you

1507
00:55:36,789 --> 00:55:35,599
know and the goal really is to move this

1508
00:55:38,549 --> 00:55:36,799
stuff forward

1509
00:55:39,990 --> 00:55:38,559
you know i mean and that's only done

1510
00:55:42,390 --> 00:55:40,000
through

1511
00:55:44,150 --> 00:55:42,400
resources being put places so that we

1512
00:55:45,750 --> 00:55:44,160
can have these conversations in person

1513
00:55:46,630 --> 00:55:45,760
so that we can get scholars together so

1514
00:55:48,309 --> 00:55:46,640
we get

1515
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:48,319
experiences so we can get scholar

1516
00:55:51,910 --> 00:55:49,680
practitioners

1517
00:55:55,430 --> 00:55:51,920
so that we can get the whole you know

1518
00:55:59,109 --> 00:55:55,440
the whole field of the whole every

1519
00:56:01,190 --> 00:55:59,119
aspect of it together and moving forward

1520
00:56:03,910 --> 00:56:01,200
looking at this stuff in a mature way in

1521
00:56:06,630 --> 00:56:03,920
an honest way in an open way you know

1522
00:56:08,789 --> 00:56:06,640
yeah um and i think that that you know i

1523
00:56:10,789 --> 00:56:08,799
think that was well in evidence there

1524
00:56:12,549 --> 00:56:10,799
you know and i so you know it's the kind

1525
00:56:15,829 --> 00:56:12,559
of um

1526
00:56:18,069 --> 00:56:15,839
it's kind of the better version um and

1527
00:56:19,109 --> 00:56:18,079
by better i do mean like better version

1528
00:56:22,630 --> 00:56:19,119
of

1529
00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:22,640
the ufo thing where it's like we're

1530
00:56:26,069 --> 00:56:24,160
gonna call it a threat so that we get

1531
00:56:28,309 --> 00:56:26,079
government money right

1532
00:56:30,309 --> 00:56:28,319
like this is kind of like the the good

1533
00:56:32,150 --> 00:56:30,319
version of that where it's like we're

1534
00:56:34,470 --> 00:56:32,160
gonna we're gonna call it an academic

1535
00:56:36,470 --> 00:56:34,480
subject so that we can use all these

1536
00:56:38,309 --> 00:56:36,480
resources that go into other things you

1537
00:56:41,990 --> 00:56:38,319
know like doing this the

1538
00:56:44,549 --> 00:56:42,000
50th study on what you know what fabric

1539
00:56:46,710 --> 00:56:44,559
softener works best or something right

1540
00:56:47,990 --> 00:56:46,720
i mean money gets if you if you look

1541
00:56:49,750 --> 00:56:48,000
into the money they get spent out of

1542
00:56:51,750 --> 00:56:49,760
universities like it's quite often spent

1543
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:51,760
on replicating studies that have been

1544
00:56:55,670 --> 00:56:53,760
replicated and replicated and replicated

1545
00:56:58,710 --> 00:56:55,680
because you know like jay was talking

1546
00:57:01,430 --> 00:56:58,720
about earlier to jeff's point about

1547
00:57:03,430 --> 00:57:01,440
academic fads those academic fads are

1548
00:57:05,589 --> 00:57:03,440
going to suck resources

1549
00:57:07,030 --> 00:57:05,599
you know and so this is an opportunity

1550
00:57:09,109 --> 00:57:07,040
to

1551
00:57:11,190 --> 00:57:09,119
kind of utilize that and say hey like

1552
00:57:12,870 --> 00:57:11,200
we've got important issues here because

1553
00:57:14,309 --> 00:57:12,880
you know jeff one of the things that i

1554
00:57:16,950 --> 00:57:14,319
think really brought jeff into this

1555
00:57:19,430 --> 00:57:16,960
topic is seeing the effect that this

1556
00:57:21,750 --> 00:57:19,440
stuff has on people

1557
00:57:22,630 --> 00:57:21,760
it's not weird it's not anonymous it's

1558
00:57:25,349 --> 00:57:22,640
people

1559
00:57:27,349 --> 00:57:25,359
that's why i'm doing this show yeah yeah

1560
00:57:29,670 --> 00:57:27,359
i mean it is you know and that's that's

1561
00:57:31,670 --> 00:57:29,680
it's so important because this is you

1562
00:57:33,190 --> 00:57:31,680
know and this is jeff talks about this a

1563
00:57:35,349 --> 00:57:33,200
lot in his work

1564
00:57:37,829 --> 00:57:35,359
this is what it means to be human

1565
00:57:39,750 --> 00:57:37,839
you know we marginalize all this stuff

1566
00:57:41,589 --> 00:57:39,760
but the very core of our humanity is

1567
00:57:43,430 --> 00:57:41,599
tied up in this stuff

1568
00:57:46,230 --> 00:57:43,440
you know and so if you can take

1569
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:46,240
university resources and explore that

1570
00:57:50,630 --> 00:57:48,720
right like not explore kind of an

1571
00:57:53,030 --> 00:57:50,640
abstract kind of stuff but actually

1572
00:57:54,950 --> 00:57:53,040
explore the human experience

1573
00:57:55,990 --> 00:57:54,960
that can be really powerful and to do it

1574
00:57:58,230 --> 00:57:56,000
in a way

1575
00:58:00,069 --> 00:57:58,240
that isn't just privileging

1576
00:58:03,109 --> 00:58:00,079
um academia

1577
00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:03,119
you know to do it in a way that is is at

1578
00:58:06,950 --> 00:58:04,960
the human level and that's you know

1579
00:58:09,190 --> 00:58:06,960
jeff's kind of broader vision is to

1580
00:58:11,270 --> 00:58:09,200
rehumanize the humanities and

1581
00:58:13,750 --> 00:58:11,280
rehumanizing it means the superhuman

1582
00:58:16,150 --> 00:58:13,760
right like as he uses it and it means

1583
00:58:17,990 --> 00:58:16,160
the the other right like it means

1584
00:58:22,870 --> 00:58:18,000
bringing that in and it means engaging

1585
00:58:24,950 --> 00:58:22,880
with that and it means that you know um

1586
00:58:26,470 --> 00:58:24,960
for you it can it can sound abstract

1587
00:58:27,990 --> 00:58:26,480
because the stuff has been marginalized

1588
00:58:29,829 --> 00:58:28,000
and it's you know it's flying saucers

1589
00:58:30,789 --> 00:58:29,839
and it's bigfoots and whatever you know

1590
00:58:32,630 --> 00:58:30,799
like

1591
00:58:33,510 --> 00:58:32,640
alien abductees and these terms that we

1592
00:58:36,549 --> 00:58:33,520
use

1593
00:58:38,230 --> 00:58:36,559
but really this this conversation has to

1594
00:58:40,950 --> 00:58:38,240
do so much with

1595
00:58:43,829 --> 00:58:40,960
us having these conversations with

1596
00:58:45,030 --> 00:58:43,839
each other across the globe and a lot of

1597
00:58:47,430 --> 00:58:45,040
issues that

1598
00:58:49,750 --> 00:58:47,440
come up in you know racism and sexism

1599
00:58:51,589 --> 00:58:49,760
and misogyny and you know patriarchy and

1600
00:58:53,190 --> 00:58:51,599
all these things are wrapped up into

1601
00:58:56,069 --> 00:58:53,200
this topic

1602
00:58:58,549 --> 00:58:56,079
and exploring it in in the ways that

1603
00:59:00,230 --> 00:58:58,559
um it goes you know it goes through

1604
00:59:02,230 --> 00:59:00,240
those things and then goes into this

1605
00:59:04,549 --> 00:59:02,240
other space where we're questioning what

1606
00:59:05,829 --> 00:59:04,559
it means to be human itself

1607
00:59:07,589 --> 00:59:05,839
i think that you know that's really

1608
00:59:08,789 --> 00:59:07,599
powerful

1609
00:59:10,870 --> 00:59:08,799
yeah

1610
00:59:13,430 --> 00:59:10,880
i could listen to talk forever

1611
00:59:14,309 --> 00:59:13,440
absolutely david and

1612
00:59:15,829 --> 00:59:14,319
yeah

1613
00:59:17,589 --> 00:59:15,839
you're absolutely right it is what it

1614
00:59:19,910 --> 00:59:17,599
means to be human and there's there's so

1615
00:59:22,150 --> 00:59:19,920
much wrapped up with that in terms of

1616
00:59:24,950 --> 00:59:22,160
consciousness in terms of what happens

1617
00:59:27,910 --> 00:59:24,960
to us after we die all except like who

1618
00:59:30,549 --> 00:59:27,920
else is out there so many key issues and

1619
00:59:32,230 --> 00:59:30,559
what kinds of reframings

1620
00:59:35,270 --> 00:59:32,240
are we going to need reframings are we

1621
00:59:37,109 --> 00:59:35,280
going to need expanded frames um when we

1622
00:59:41,430 --> 00:59:37,119
have more concrete

1623
00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:41,440
and and

1624
00:59:43,670 --> 00:59:42,960
you know i think

1625
00:59:47,109 --> 00:59:43,680
back

1626
00:59:49,910 --> 00:59:47,119
with john's question earlier um

1627
00:59:51,750 --> 00:59:49,920
were there ulterior reasons why to meet

1628
00:59:54,069 --> 00:59:51,760
and things like that or why else are you

1629
00:59:56,150 --> 00:59:54,079
celebrating and one of the

1630
00:59:58,549 --> 00:59:56,160
one of the kind of unstated

1631
01:00:00,789 --> 00:59:58,559
reasons to to celebrate is that this is

1632
01:00:01,589 --> 01:00:00,799
kind of a firm anchor

1633
01:00:04,390 --> 01:00:01,599
or

1634
01:00:07,270 --> 01:00:04,400
with jeff and with this archive and with

1635
01:00:10,549 --> 01:00:07,280
his his gem department at one of the

1636
01:00:12,470 --> 01:00:10,559
most well endowed universities in north

1637
01:00:15,109 --> 01:00:12,480
america if not

1638
01:00:17,190 --> 01:00:15,119
everywhere and so you know rice is an

1639
01:00:20,630 --> 01:00:17,200
extraordinarily well

1640
01:00:23,190 --> 01:00:20,640
well-funded university and so just being

1641
01:00:24,950 --> 01:00:23,200
able to it just feels like a huge win

1642
01:00:26,789 --> 01:00:24,960
even to be able to take over a

1643
01:00:29,349 --> 01:00:26,799
conference hall for like three and a

1644
01:00:32,390 --> 01:00:29,359
half days right but imagine how that can

1645
01:00:34,870 --> 01:00:32,400
grow in terms of of how we can take

1646
01:00:37,670 --> 01:00:34,880
things afterwards you know and where we

1647
01:00:39,910 --> 01:00:37,680
can go in continuing these conversations

1648
01:00:42,549 --> 01:00:39,920
and the study that can can happen when

1649
01:00:44,390 --> 01:00:42,559
we when we take these

1650
01:00:46,630 --> 01:00:44,400
these different arrangements of people

1651
01:00:47,430 --> 01:00:46,640
in these networks and and really go with

1652
01:00:49,910 --> 01:00:47,440
it

1653
01:00:53,109 --> 01:00:49,920
i have a a a question if you have time

1654
01:00:54,470 --> 01:00:53,119
where we're up at an hour but um

1655
01:00:57,030 --> 01:00:54,480
if we can't we can pick it up a

1656
01:00:59,510 --> 01:00:57,040
different time but you know i feel like

1657
01:01:01,430 --> 01:00:59,520
a lot of you know what we discuss and in

1658
01:01:04,069 --> 01:01:01,440
the different topics whether it be

1659
01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:04,079
consciousness ufos you know paranormal

1660
01:01:09,349 --> 01:01:05,920
pk whatever it is

1661
01:01:10,710 --> 01:01:09,359
um i feel like a lot of

1662
01:01:13,430 --> 01:01:10,720
um

1663
01:01:15,109 --> 01:01:13,440
you know what kind of propels it to to

1664
01:01:17,190 --> 01:01:15,119
continue to go forward and lead

1665
01:01:19,750 --> 01:01:17,200
zeitgeist and so forth is

1666
01:01:22,230 --> 01:01:19,760
is the mystery of it you know in the

1667
01:01:24,309 --> 01:01:22,240
chasing of that

1668
01:01:26,150 --> 01:01:24,319
what happens with some of this stuff in

1669
01:01:27,589 --> 01:01:26,160
our human experiences that are wrapped

1670
01:01:33,109 --> 01:01:27,599
up with it

1671
01:01:35,349 --> 01:01:34,230
it's a funny

1672
01:01:38,630 --> 01:01:35,359
mystery

1673
01:01:41,750 --> 01:01:40,150
you know whether whatever that means you

1674
01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:41,760
know

1675
01:01:44,870 --> 01:01:43,440
i think the mystery is figured out you

1676
01:01:46,230 --> 01:01:44,880
know you know i think that mystery

1677
01:01:47,510 --> 01:01:46,240
deepens

1678
01:01:49,349 --> 01:01:47,520
yeah

1679
01:01:53,109 --> 01:01:49,359
i think really like

1680
01:01:54,069 --> 01:01:53,119
the more expanded um the understandings

1681
01:01:56,549 --> 01:01:54,079
from

1682
01:01:57,910 --> 01:01:56,559
the deeper the questions become you know

1683
01:01:59,670 --> 01:01:57,920
um

1684
01:02:02,230 --> 01:01:59,680
i don't think that really ever

1685
01:02:03,510 --> 01:02:02,240
ever does disappear um

1686
01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:03,520
you know if you think of it like in

1687
01:02:07,750 --> 01:02:05,760
terms of like a marriage right

1688
01:02:10,230 --> 01:02:07,760
like a good marriage

1689
01:02:11,910 --> 01:02:10,240
doesn't get stale you know it just gets

1690
01:02:13,430 --> 01:02:11,920
there's different players there's

1691
01:02:14,549 --> 01:02:13,440
different you know aspects of it over

1692
01:02:15,430 --> 01:02:14,559
time

1693
01:02:18,069 --> 01:02:15,440
man

1694
01:02:20,950 --> 01:02:18,079
or friendship you know to take it down a

1695
01:02:22,390 --> 01:02:20,960
notch you know like um a good friendship

1696
01:02:24,470 --> 01:02:22,400
like it changes

1697
01:02:27,430 --> 01:02:24,480
the familiarity is there as a base but

1698
01:02:29,589 --> 01:02:27,440
then you know that just leads to other

1699
01:02:31,750 --> 01:02:29,599
levels of it you know

1700
01:02:32,789 --> 01:02:31,760
something new you learn about each other

1701
01:02:37,029 --> 01:02:32,799
yeah

1702
01:02:39,750 --> 01:02:37,039
i mean even if we just take one tiny

1703
01:02:41,190 --> 01:02:39,760
little piece of the question of the

1704
01:02:43,589 --> 01:02:41,200
impossible and

1705
01:02:48,150 --> 01:02:43,599
and throw it squarely back in the realm

1706
01:02:49,750 --> 01:02:48,160
of ufology um we could say you know are

1707
01:02:52,230 --> 01:02:49,760
the grays real

1708
01:02:53,670 --> 01:02:52,240
right are the gray's real and then

1709
01:02:55,270 --> 01:02:53,680
someday it's just like you open the

1710
01:02:56,789 --> 01:02:55,280
newspaper and it's like yup the grays

1711
01:02:58,549 --> 01:02:56,799
are real you know

1712
01:02:59,829 --> 01:02:58,559
a hundred point font there it is yeah

1713
01:03:03,270 --> 01:02:59,839
there's a picture of one of them he's

1714
01:03:06,069 --> 01:03:03,280
like hey what's up and um and it's like

1715
01:03:08,549 --> 01:03:06,079
yep they sure are real here's the bodies

1716
01:03:11,190 --> 01:03:08,559
you know yeah whatever um they're

1717
01:03:12,470 --> 01:03:11,200
they're real and but how much does that

1718
01:03:14,150 --> 01:03:12,480
thing open things up because then it's

1719
01:03:16,789 --> 01:03:14,160
like well why are they here right and

1720
01:03:18,710 --> 01:03:16,799
then we go from there to to where do

1721
01:03:20,710 --> 01:03:18,720
they come from right these base level

1722
01:03:22,069 --> 01:03:20,720
questions and then it's like

1723
01:03:25,029 --> 01:03:22,079
where do they go the bathroom what do

1724
01:03:27,430 --> 01:03:25,039
they eat right and then how

1725
01:03:29,270 --> 01:03:27,440
what what's the history of their society

1726
01:03:30,870 --> 01:03:29,280
and that human nature is the question

1727
01:03:32,549 --> 01:03:30,880
every answer you get

1728
01:03:34,069 --> 01:03:32,559
yeah and then eventually you can get to

1729
01:03:36,630 --> 01:03:34,079
the question of like well what's a

1730
01:03:38,789 --> 01:03:36,640
mystery what are the mysteries to you mr

1731
01:03:41,510 --> 01:03:38,799
gray like what's a mystery to you

1732
01:03:44,390 --> 01:03:41,520
and and maybe that it brings up like a

1733
01:03:45,990 --> 01:03:44,400
whole nother onion oh my gosh right

1734
01:03:48,630 --> 01:03:46,000
yeah never ending

1735
01:03:51,589 --> 01:03:48,640
so i said so i'd agree with david that

1736
01:03:54,230 --> 01:03:51,599
that you know we could be looking at at

1737
01:03:56,150 --> 01:03:54,240
hundreds thousands tens of thousands

1738
01:03:59,670 --> 01:03:56,160
years of mysteries

1739
01:04:01,829 --> 01:03:59,680
uh ahead of us just by pursuing even the

1740
01:04:03,829 --> 01:04:01,839
topics that we have in front of us if

1741
01:04:06,309 --> 01:04:03,839
not the invisible ones that we don't

1742
01:04:09,670 --> 01:04:06,319
even see yet because we're still trying

1743
01:04:11,910 --> 01:04:09,680
to figure out what that ecology is

1744
01:04:14,630 --> 01:04:11,920
and what that kind of phone book looks

1745
01:04:16,150 --> 01:04:14,640
like what the members of that weird

1746
01:04:16,950 --> 01:04:16,160
world are

1747
01:04:20,870 --> 01:04:16,960
and

1748
01:04:22,309 --> 01:04:20,880
the map of what it looks like

1749
01:04:23,109 --> 01:04:22,319
what's interesting is

1750
01:04:26,630 --> 01:04:23,119
you know

1751
01:04:29,270 --> 01:04:26,640
when we we get to a point like that is

1752
01:04:31,430 --> 01:04:29,280
kind of the the unseen growth that you

1753
01:04:33,190 --> 01:04:31,440
know kind of packs on top of you as

1754
01:04:35,109 --> 01:04:33,200
you're going through these

1755
01:04:37,510 --> 01:04:35,119
you know different phases of whether it

1756
01:04:39,270 --> 01:04:37,520
be investigating or learning or reading

1757
01:04:41,510 --> 01:04:39,280
and and you don't really notice it like

1758
01:04:42,710 --> 01:04:41,520
you know when you gain 15 pounds and you

1759
01:04:44,470 --> 01:04:42,720
look in the mirror

1760
01:04:46,309 --> 01:04:44,480
at yourself every day you don't really

1761
01:04:49,589 --> 01:04:46,319
notice until you weigh yourself you know

1762
01:04:51,829 --> 01:04:49,599
and it's kind of like this as well as by

1763
01:04:53,510 --> 01:04:51,839
the time a new mystery opens

1764
01:04:55,670 --> 01:04:53,520
like you don't even realize how much

1765
01:04:58,150 --> 01:04:55,680
more enlightened of a person you are or

1766
01:04:59,670 --> 01:04:58,160
how much more depth there is to your

1767
01:05:01,670 --> 01:04:59,680
soul you know

1768
01:05:03,990 --> 01:05:01,680
um so that's kind of the exciting part

1769
01:05:08,630 --> 01:05:04,000
to me is is the further along that we go

1770
01:05:10,069 --> 01:05:08,640
with this stuff the more you know um

1771
01:05:12,549 --> 01:05:10,079
our our

1772
01:05:15,349 --> 01:05:12,559
i guess our spirituality will flourish

1773
01:05:16,390 --> 01:05:15,359
or consciousness will will grow in and

1774
01:05:19,510 --> 01:05:16,400
deepen

1775
01:05:21,109 --> 01:05:19,520
um and i look forward to that very much

1776
01:05:25,010 --> 01:05:21,119
as as jeff said at the end of the

1777
01:05:30,390 --> 01:05:25,020
conference go out and confuse the world

1778
01:05:32,950 --> 01:05:30,400
[Laughter]

1779
01:05:35,270 --> 01:05:32,960
i love him i love his sneaky turns of

1780
01:05:37,270 --> 01:05:35,280
phrase he's amazing

1781
01:05:39,109 --> 01:05:37,280
there are so many great i've i've got

1782
01:05:40,549 --> 01:05:39,119
like a whole notebook that are just

1783
01:05:41,750 --> 01:05:40,559
filled with

1784
01:05:43,510 --> 01:05:41,760
great products

1785
01:05:45,349 --> 01:05:43,520
it could be a toilet book just as

1786
01:05:46,630 --> 01:05:45,359
phrases

1787
01:05:49,190 --> 01:05:46,640
exactly

1788
01:05:52,150 --> 01:05:51,349
it's great

1789
01:06:00,069 --> 01:05:52,160
um

1790
01:06:02,390 --> 01:06:01,510
anything at all

1791
01:06:05,349 --> 01:06:02,400
um

1792
01:06:07,670 --> 01:06:05,359
gosh i mean we did the inspiring things

1793
01:06:10,549 --> 01:06:07,680
we could uh i mean we could go for one

1794
01:06:12,230 --> 01:06:10,559
weird one weird ending question

1795
01:06:13,190 --> 01:06:12,240
you know if you'd like or

1796
01:06:14,549 --> 01:06:13,200
um

1797
01:06:16,309 --> 01:06:14,559
i remember

1798
01:06:18,789 --> 01:06:16,319
uh david

1799
01:06:20,710 --> 01:06:18,799
that um the night before okay so our

1800
01:06:23,109 --> 01:06:20,720
panel came together kind of at the last

1801
01:06:24,950 --> 01:06:23,119
minute because stewart had to had a

1802
01:06:27,109 --> 01:06:24,960
family emergency and had to stay back

1803
01:06:28,789 --> 01:06:27,119
home everything's fine he's fine the

1804
01:06:30,069 --> 01:06:28,799
family's fine

1805
01:06:30,870 --> 01:06:30,079
um

1806
01:06:31,589 --> 01:06:30,880
but

1807
01:06:33,510 --> 01:06:31,599
so

1808
01:06:36,470 --> 01:06:33,520
he was going to be moderating and on the

1809
01:06:38,710 --> 01:06:36,480
panel and so i got asked to speak to the

1810
01:06:40,870 --> 01:06:38,720
experiencer group issues and things like

1811
01:06:43,670 --> 01:06:40,880
that and then the moderating position

1812
01:06:45,910 --> 01:06:43,680
went to cameron hammond a wonderful

1813
01:06:48,150 --> 01:06:45,920
author and thinker who

1814
01:06:49,270 --> 01:06:48,160
helped organize the event she's great

1815
01:06:51,510 --> 01:06:49,280
and so

1816
01:06:54,309 --> 01:06:51,520
we were kind and david was on this panel

1817
01:06:55,270 --> 01:06:54,319
marcus redd was on this panel

1818
01:07:00,789 --> 01:06:55,280
and

1819
01:07:03,349 --> 01:07:00,799
gosh is there one other

1820
01:07:05,829 --> 01:07:03,359
person no i think i i hate everybody and

1821
01:07:08,150 --> 01:07:05,839
so there's angelo john lewis as well oh

1822
01:07:09,670 --> 01:07:08,160
angelo jonas yes absolutely who's great

1823
01:07:10,789 --> 01:07:09,680
and he also lives in new jersey so we're

1824
01:07:12,710 --> 01:07:10,799
going to be hanging out soon which is

1825
01:07:14,470 --> 01:07:12,720
fantastic um

1826
01:07:16,710 --> 01:07:14,480
but um and so

1827
01:07:18,710 --> 01:07:16,720
so we were kind of having this

1828
01:07:21,109 --> 01:07:18,720
this oh snap we have to get this

1829
01:07:22,069 --> 01:07:21,119
together pretty quickly and cameron sent

1830
01:07:24,309 --> 01:07:22,079
us

1831
01:07:27,029 --> 01:07:24,319
these wild

1832
01:07:28,789 --> 01:07:27,039
questions the very night before

1833
01:07:30,390 --> 01:07:28,799
and and

1834
01:07:32,549 --> 01:07:30,400
because of a few different things we

1835
01:07:33,430 --> 01:07:32,559
were only able to cover like one or two

1836
01:07:35,829 --> 01:07:33,440
of them

1837
01:07:38,150 --> 01:07:35,839
but i've got one of the weird questions

1838
01:07:41,349 --> 01:07:38,160
that she's got from her panel and i'll

1839
01:07:43,670 --> 01:07:41,359
ask it to david as a way to

1840
01:07:45,270 --> 01:07:43,680
introduce him to the audience and we can

1841
01:07:46,470 --> 01:07:45,280
leave how about that

1842
01:07:47,270 --> 01:07:46,480
um

1843
01:07:50,230 --> 01:07:47,280
sure

1844
01:07:52,230 --> 01:07:50,240
um david what project so this is from

1845
01:07:53,510 --> 01:07:52,240
cameron hammond this isn't if anybody

1846
01:07:55,029 --> 01:07:53,520
has a problem with this question it's

1847
01:07:57,270 --> 01:07:55,039
not me it's cameron

1848
01:07:59,670 --> 01:07:57,280
what project was or is the most

1849
01:08:02,390 --> 01:07:59,680
difficult not only to live with but to

1850
01:08:04,309 --> 01:08:02,400
translate into something creative

1851
01:08:06,710 --> 01:08:04,319
for you that ultimately people would

1852
01:08:08,470 --> 01:08:06,720
understand what made it difficult i

1853
01:08:11,190 --> 01:08:08,480
thought that was a really

1854
01:08:12,870 --> 01:08:11,200
wildly brilliant and crazy question yeah

1855
01:08:14,470 --> 01:08:12,880
that's an interesting uh that's an

1856
01:08:16,630 --> 01:08:14,480
interesting question you know honestly

1857
01:08:18,550 --> 01:08:16,640
it's the a lot of the size stuff the

1858
01:08:21,829 --> 01:08:18,560
parapsychology stuff

1859
01:08:23,030 --> 01:08:21,839
um because the research itself is a lot

1860
01:08:28,070 --> 01:08:23,040
of

1861
01:08:30,630 --> 01:08:28,080
and um

1862
01:08:33,110 --> 01:08:30,640
the the research you know this was an

1863
01:08:36,070 --> 01:08:33,120
issue with with uh

1864
01:08:38,070 --> 01:08:36,080
with jb ryan right like the the card the

1865
01:08:39,749 --> 01:08:38,080
zener cards that most people know about

1866
01:08:41,829 --> 01:08:39,759
right like the esp test they have it in

1867
01:08:43,590 --> 01:08:41,839
ghostbusters the movie like these cards

1868
01:08:45,910 --> 01:08:43,600
have symbols on them

1869
01:08:48,070 --> 01:08:45,920
um there's a thing in parapsychology

1870
01:08:49,269 --> 01:08:48,080
called the decline effect

1871
01:08:52,870 --> 01:08:49,279
and

1872
01:08:54,950 --> 01:08:52,880
part of the thinking around why the

1873
01:08:56,789 --> 01:08:54,960
psychic functioning declines the

1874
01:08:59,910 --> 01:08:56,799
hypothesis is

1875
01:09:02,550 --> 01:08:59,920
that the tests are so boring right

1876
01:09:07,510 --> 01:09:02,560
so like if that if that's the case

1877
01:09:08,789 --> 01:09:07,520
imagine trying to translate that into um

1878
01:09:11,030 --> 01:09:08,799
you know public

1879
01:09:13,910 --> 01:09:11,040
public communication and so i actually

1880
01:09:17,030 --> 01:09:13,920
had a uh i was a contributing editor for

1881
01:09:18,870 --> 01:09:17,040
reality sandwiches it was a web magazine

1882
01:09:20,309 --> 01:09:18,880
um which now is under different

1883
01:09:22,950 --> 01:09:20,319
ownership and has a totally different

1884
01:09:23,990 --> 01:09:22,960
focus but um at the time

1885
01:09:25,030 --> 01:09:24,000
uh

1886
01:09:28,149 --> 01:09:25,040
which was

1887
01:09:29,030 --> 01:09:28,159
around like 2013 or so

1888
01:09:29,990 --> 01:09:29,040
um

1889
01:09:32,309 --> 01:09:30,000
the

1890
01:09:35,749 --> 01:09:32,319
institute of noetic science was doing a

1891
01:09:38,950 --> 01:09:35,759
study of burning man okay right like

1892
01:09:40,709 --> 01:09:38,960
burning man festival they've got lasers

1893
01:09:43,110 --> 01:09:40,719
they've got random number generators

1894
01:09:45,669 --> 01:09:43,120
hooked up to the lasers and they have

1895
01:09:47,349 --> 01:09:45,679
people you know the thing is is that the

1896
01:09:48,789 --> 01:09:47,359
audience would come forward and then

1897
01:09:51,349 --> 01:09:48,799
concentrate

1898
01:09:52,309 --> 01:09:51,359
on the random number generators and they

1899
01:09:55,110 --> 01:09:52,319
were going to

1900
01:09:57,590 --> 01:09:55,120
see the effect of the mind on the random

1901
01:09:58,390 --> 01:09:57,600
number generators by the this machine

1902
01:09:59,430 --> 01:09:58,400
right

1903
01:10:02,550 --> 01:09:59,440
and so

1904
01:10:05,430 --> 01:10:02,560
as as a editor i was thinking lasers

1905
01:10:07,430 --> 01:10:05,440
burning man and psychics

1906
01:10:09,350 --> 01:10:07,440
that's a win all the way around right

1907
01:10:10,709 --> 01:10:09,360
and i didn't have time to write the

1908
01:10:14,070 --> 01:10:10,719
piece so

1909
01:10:15,830 --> 01:10:14,080
i had you know i handed it off to a

1910
01:10:17,189 --> 01:10:15,840
freelance writer that wanted to write

1911
01:10:18,709 --> 01:10:17,199
for the magazine

1912
01:10:19,830 --> 01:10:18,719
and i got back

1913
01:10:21,110 --> 01:10:19,840
uh

1914
01:10:22,790 --> 01:10:21,120
like

1915
01:10:25,270 --> 01:10:22,800
sort of rough drafting it wasn't even a

1916
01:10:27,189 --> 01:10:25,280
rough draft it was like just some like

1917
01:10:29,430 --> 01:10:27,199
wikipedia crammed together there was

1918
01:10:32,149 --> 01:10:29,440
some like james randy skeptic quotes

1919
01:10:34,470 --> 01:10:32,159
like psy's not real

1920
01:10:36,470 --> 01:10:34,480
and then um and this is a bunch of math

1921
01:10:37,910 --> 01:10:36,480
and i don't know anything about this i

1922
01:10:39,830 --> 01:10:37,920
mean it was that was literally like what

1923
01:10:41,990 --> 01:10:39,840
i got back and i was like

1924
01:10:44,470 --> 01:10:42,000
how do you screw up lasers burning man

1925
01:10:44,990 --> 01:10:44,480
and psychics even you know

1926
01:10:46,790 --> 01:10:45,000
so

1927
01:10:49,110 --> 01:10:46,800
[Laughter]

1928
01:10:51,030 --> 01:10:49,120
trying to trying to translate

1929
01:10:52,390 --> 01:10:51,040
that the the seriousness of the because

1930
01:10:54,070 --> 01:10:52,400
at the other end you've got you know

1931
01:10:55,270 --> 01:10:54,080
these researchers who are very serious

1932
01:10:57,030 --> 01:10:55,280
scientists

1933
01:10:59,110 --> 01:10:57,040
and they don't necessarily want you to

1934
01:11:01,830 --> 01:10:59,120
be presenting their stuff as lasers and

1935
01:11:04,070 --> 01:11:01,840
psychics and like you know um and so

1936
01:11:06,709 --> 01:11:04,080
finding that balance i know that

1937
01:11:08,470 --> 01:11:06,719
um i do some like graphic design stuff

1938
01:11:10,870 --> 01:11:08,480
and i really enjoy like like you're

1939
01:11:12,390 --> 01:11:10,880
mentioning sean living in the past like

1940
01:11:14,709 --> 01:11:12,400
i love

1941
01:11:15,990 --> 01:11:14,719
these paperback covers and they'll like

1942
01:11:18,550 --> 01:11:16,000
just sort of like

1943
01:11:21,030 --> 01:11:18,560
read like graphics and stuff like that

1944
01:11:23,110 --> 01:11:21,040
and um you know at the same time i also

1945
01:11:24,310 --> 01:11:23,120
love like the strict like

1946
01:11:26,550 --> 01:11:24,320
research

1947
01:11:28,550 --> 01:11:26,560
but you know um there's been times where

1948
01:11:30,550 --> 01:11:28,560
like i'll do a design or something and

1949
01:11:32,630 --> 01:11:30,560
like people will come back and be like

1950
01:11:34,229 --> 01:11:32,640
that's not we can't we're not gonna do

1951
01:11:36,310 --> 01:11:34,239
that because

1952
01:11:37,830 --> 01:11:36,320
that's not what we're trying to go for

1953
01:11:39,030 --> 01:11:37,840
you know i don't think that's separate

1954
01:11:42,229 --> 01:11:39,040
from the research and they're like it's

1955
01:11:44,310 --> 01:11:42,239
making it look bad like

1956
01:11:45,510 --> 01:11:44,320
you know

1957
01:11:47,510 --> 01:11:45,520
yeah so

1958
01:11:49,350 --> 01:11:47,520
translating the the like the hard

1959
01:11:51,270 --> 01:11:49,360
science behind this and trying to get

1960
01:11:53,590 --> 01:11:51,280
that away and i think that that's one of

1961
01:11:54,630 --> 01:11:53,600
the things too that this uh

1962
01:11:56,310 --> 01:11:54,640
hopefully

1963
01:11:57,270 --> 01:11:56,320
the dialogues that we're having you know

1964
01:11:58,630 --> 01:11:57,280
that came out of the conference that

1965
01:12:00,310 --> 01:11:58,640
we're coming we're happening honestly

1966
01:12:01,430 --> 01:12:00,320
before the conference amongst people in

1967
01:12:03,350 --> 01:12:01,440
that but

1968
01:12:05,030 --> 01:12:03,360
um how to get these areas into the

1969
01:12:06,870 --> 01:12:05,040
public in a way that's you know like

1970
01:12:09,830 --> 01:12:06,880
ancient aliens right i mentioned this on

1971
01:12:11,990 --> 01:12:09,840
the panel um it's one of the longest

1972
01:12:14,630 --> 01:12:12,000
running shows on television

1973
01:12:16,709 --> 01:12:14,640
and it um you know i live in

1974
01:12:19,110 --> 01:12:16,719
i work at uh

1975
01:12:21,669 --> 01:12:19,120
the university of georgia i'm in georgia

1976
01:12:23,189 --> 01:12:21,679
and i live rural like i live outside of

1977
01:12:25,189 --> 01:12:23,199
outside of town

1978
01:12:26,070 --> 01:12:25,199
and i've been amazed at hearing you know

1979
01:12:27,350 --> 01:12:26,080
like

1980
01:12:29,590 --> 01:12:27,360
regular

1981
01:12:32,310 --> 01:12:29,600
church-going christians

1982
01:12:34,630 --> 01:12:32,320
coming back and talking to me about

1983
01:12:36,630 --> 01:12:34,640
the book of enoch and watchers and

1984
01:12:38,070 --> 01:12:36,640
nephilim and all this stuff and it's

1985
01:12:39,669 --> 01:12:38,080
coming straight out of ancient aliens

1986
01:12:41,750 --> 01:12:39,679
like it's totally like you were watching

1987
01:12:44,470 --> 01:12:41,760
ancient aliens that you're integrating

1988
01:12:46,630 --> 01:12:44,480
not into you lie to me yeah i know what

1989
01:12:48,830 --> 01:12:46,640
you were doing

1990
01:12:52,709 --> 01:12:48,840
but um seeing that that integrate but

1991
01:12:54,390 --> 01:12:52,719
like you know so

1992
01:12:56,470 --> 01:12:54,400
there's been you know depending on what

1993
01:12:57,990 --> 01:12:56,480
episode it is like there's little chunks

1994
01:13:00,149 --> 01:12:58,000
of it that are accurate you know and

1995
01:13:02,070 --> 01:13:00,159
then it spins out into this other thing

1996
01:13:04,790 --> 01:13:02,080
and it's like how do you get that

1997
01:13:06,790 --> 01:13:04,800
how do you get the um

1998
01:13:08,310 --> 01:13:06,800
you know just the the excitement right

1999
01:13:10,070 --> 01:13:08,320
of like the like

2000
01:13:12,390 --> 01:13:10,080
and then the voice and you know those

2001
01:13:14,470 --> 01:13:12,400
spaceships flying and like

2002
01:13:15,669 --> 01:13:14,480
god beings coming down and stuff how do

2003
01:13:17,350 --> 01:13:15,679
you get that

2004
01:13:19,830 --> 01:13:17,360
but then present the information that's

2005
01:13:22,070 --> 01:13:19,840
actually fruitful to people um

2006
01:13:23,830 --> 01:13:22,080
you know going forward with this stuff

2007
01:13:26,149 --> 01:13:23,840
you know and also respectful too because

2008
01:13:27,510 --> 01:13:26,159
i think that a lot of times it's like

2009
01:13:29,110 --> 01:13:27,520
i wasn't about to

2010
01:13:30,630 --> 01:13:29,120
portray it you know i know that you know

2011
01:13:32,390 --> 01:13:30,640
like um

2012
01:13:34,149 --> 01:13:32,400
chris bledsoe had that where when they

2013
01:13:37,430 --> 01:13:34,159
took his experience

2014
01:13:39,189 --> 01:13:37,440
and they turned it into a tv show it was

2015
01:13:42,790 --> 01:13:39,199
not what had happened to him and it was

2016
01:13:44,950 --> 01:13:42,800
kind of awful you know so yeah um how do

2017
01:13:47,430 --> 01:13:44,960
you how do you bridge that so that would

2018
01:13:49,110 --> 01:13:47,440
say that's kind of

2019
01:13:50,310 --> 01:13:49,120
the difficult thing

2020
01:13:51,270 --> 01:13:50,320
yeah

2021
01:13:54,070 --> 01:13:51,280
that's

2022
01:13:55,510 --> 01:13:54,080
it is difficult uh you know whatever if

2023
01:13:57,590 --> 01:13:55,520
you know i'm not going to have the

2024
01:13:58,950 --> 01:13:57,600
correct answer right now but if i would

2025
01:14:00,470 --> 01:13:58,960
you know have something to say on it i

2026
01:14:02,149 --> 01:14:00,480
would say it

2027
01:14:04,709 --> 01:14:02,159
you know would have to do with the

2028
01:14:07,430 --> 01:14:04,719
artistic aspect in the human emotional

2029
01:14:09,990 --> 01:14:07,440
connection aspect whatever it is i think

2030
01:14:12,390 --> 01:14:10,000
it has to be stronger than big booms and

2031
01:14:13,990 --> 01:14:12,400
crazy graphics on the television and is

2032
01:14:15,750 --> 01:14:14,000
something that you know wraps around

2033
01:14:18,149 --> 01:14:15,760
your heart and and pulls you right

2034
01:14:19,910 --> 01:14:18,159
towards it you know however that

2035
01:14:21,910 --> 01:14:19,920
would happen whether it be through you

2036
01:14:23,590 --> 01:14:21,920
know visuals or

2037
01:14:25,750 --> 01:14:23,600
or music or

2038
01:14:27,350 --> 01:14:25,760
or just um you know

2039
01:14:29,990 --> 01:14:27,360
amazing stories

2040
01:14:31,590 --> 01:14:30,000
that people can relate to or or whatever

2041
01:14:34,229 --> 01:14:31,600
you know

2042
01:14:36,470 --> 01:14:34,239
yeah and i appreciate it

2043
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:36,480
i appreciate david not as smart as you

2044
01:14:40,310 --> 01:14:37,850
guys so no

2045
01:14:41,830 --> 01:14:40,320
[Laughter]

2046
01:14:43,430 --> 01:14:41,840
i'm shooting from there

2047
01:14:45,669 --> 01:14:43,440
we're just all having a conversation

2048
01:14:47,990 --> 01:14:45,679
it's great and david i really appreciate

2049
01:14:49,910 --> 01:14:48,000
and sean i appreciate you both

2050
01:14:51,910 --> 01:14:49,920
as david you're putting it you know

2051
01:14:54,229 --> 01:14:51,920
writing that that balance and trying to

2052
01:14:55,350 --> 01:14:54,239
find that balance point and

2053
01:15:05,750 --> 01:14:55,360
and

2054
01:15:07,590 --> 01:15:05,760
i'm super psyched that that i know both

2055
01:15:09,669 --> 01:15:07,600
of you and that we get to

2056
01:15:11,590 --> 01:15:09,679
have these kinds of conversations with

2057
01:15:12,390 --> 01:15:11,600
the with the wonderful audience that we

2058
01:15:13,350 --> 01:15:12,400
have

2059
01:15:21,830 --> 01:15:13,360
and

2060
01:15:23,510 --> 01:15:21,840
going to be awesome yeah i look forward

2061
01:15:25,830 --> 01:15:23,520
to it and i hope you come back again

2062
01:15:28,229 --> 01:15:25,840
david don't be a stranger thank you so

2063
01:15:30,470 --> 01:15:28,239
much i really do being invited on here

2064
01:15:32,870 --> 01:15:30,480
this is this is a fun conversation

2065
01:15:33,830 --> 01:15:32,880
yeah i love the the intro to your show

2066
01:15:35,030 --> 01:15:33,840
like that

2067
01:15:37,030 --> 01:15:35,040
i think that's

2068
01:15:39,430 --> 01:15:37,040
a good example of walking the line those

2069
01:15:42,229 --> 01:15:39,440
that was really good like i just made it

2070
01:15:46,550 --> 01:15:44,709
i switched it up quite often yeah but i

2071
01:15:47,669 --> 01:15:46,560
i like this one so

2072
01:15:50,229 --> 01:15:47,679
um

2073
01:15:52,790 --> 01:15:50,239
thank you again uh for for being here i

2074
01:15:54,229 --> 01:15:52,800
really do appreciate it um everybody in

2075
01:15:56,790 --> 01:15:54,239
the chat thank you so much for hanging

2076
01:15:59,430 --> 01:15:56,800
out um we'll definitely uh bring mr

2077
01:16:01,270 --> 01:15:59,440
david back for more great conversation

2078
01:16:02,470 --> 01:16:01,280
because i love uh you know where these

2079
01:16:05,350 --> 01:16:02,480
go so

2080
01:16:09,669 --> 01:16:05,360
with that being said

2081
01:16:15,030 --> 01:16:09,679
i will say adios amigos see y'all soon

2082
01:16:19,430 --> 01:16:16,390
great stuff man

2083
01:16:20,550 --> 01:16:19,440
wonderful wonderful stuff

2084
01:16:21,910 --> 01:16:20,560
um

2085
01:16:29,590 --> 01:16:21,920
what does this look

2086
01:16:33,030 --> 01:16:31,189
i think it broke the time space

2087
01:16:34,470 --> 01:16:33,040
continuum there my friend

2088
01:16:36,470 --> 01:16:34,480
i loved it

2089
01:16:38,229 --> 01:16:36,480
and i love david mcgrath i know i just

2090
01:16:40,149 --> 01:16:38,239
met him but i i

2091
01:16:41,430 --> 01:16:40,159
i got a i've got a little intellectual

2092
01:16:43,590 --> 01:16:41,440
crush on him i think he's a really

2093
01:16:45,189 --> 01:16:43,600
bright guy i think i could tell for the

2094
01:16:47,270 --> 01:16:45,199
covers i

2095
01:16:49,270 --> 01:16:47,280
was working that down i'm just kidding

2096
01:16:50,709 --> 01:16:49,280
yeah thank you so much uh i had a great

2097
01:16:51,590 --> 01:16:50,719
time great dude

2098
01:16:54,149 --> 01:16:51,600
um

2099
01:16:56,229 --> 01:16:54,159
you know the more i can be around people

2100
01:16:58,470 --> 01:16:56,239
that um are

2101
01:17:01,990 --> 01:16:58,480
um can you know

2102
01:17:04,470 --> 01:17:02,000
force me to test my own limits of how

2103
01:17:05,990 --> 01:17:04,480
deep i can go with it within myself

2104
01:17:07,669 --> 01:17:06,000
whether it be intellectually or

2105
01:17:08,870 --> 01:17:07,679
spiritually

2106
01:17:10,229 --> 01:17:08,880
you know

2107
01:17:12,550 --> 01:17:10,239
the more the better

2108
01:17:14,390 --> 01:17:12,560
and i want to surround myself with that

2109
01:17:17,110 --> 01:17:14,400
as much as possible so

2110
01:17:20,149 --> 01:17:17,120
you know meeting someone like him um

2111
01:17:21,430 --> 01:17:20,159
is fantastic for that so yeah that's

2112
01:17:22,709 --> 01:17:21,440
great that's great

2113
01:17:24,149 --> 01:17:22,719
well i know the kind i know the

2114
01:17:26,630 --> 01:17:24,159
conversation must have been awesome for

2115
01:17:28,790 --> 01:17:26,640
you because we're like 17 minutes into

2116
01:17:30,950 --> 01:17:28,800
into your your meal time

2117
01:17:32,229 --> 01:17:30,960
yeah i'm starving

2118
01:17:33,590 --> 01:17:32,239
i can imagine

2119
01:17:35,510 --> 01:17:33,600
you can't hear my belly grumble

2120
01:17:37,830 --> 01:17:35,520
hopefully so yeah

2121
01:17:41,430 --> 01:17:37,840
but um thanks thanks thanks again to

2122
01:17:44,790 --> 01:17:41,440
everybody in the chat toby and ann and

2123
01:17:48,070 --> 01:17:44,800
terry and and the wonderful amazing

2124
01:17:50,470 --> 01:17:48,080
kirsten blackburn water lily john davies

2125
01:17:52,950 --> 01:17:50,480
i saw tim earlier mark so many great

2126
01:17:54,870 --> 01:17:52,960
people in there uh thank you for showing

2127
01:17:56,470 --> 01:17:54,880
up and keeping the conversation lively

2128
01:17:59,110 --> 01:17:56,480
over there it's awesome like the video

2129
01:18:01,430 --> 01:17:59,120
hit the thumbs up all that good stuff

2130
01:18:03,990 --> 01:18:01,440
yeah that's like a dollar to me that's

2131
01:18:05,590 --> 01:18:04,000
how i get paid his thumbs up

2132
01:18:07,990 --> 01:18:05,600
and emotional support

2133
01:18:09,669 --> 01:18:08,000
you have kirsten and i uh

2134
01:18:12,470 --> 01:18:09,679
experience your group co-founder stewart

2135
01:18:14,790 --> 01:18:12,480
on tomorrow right yeah and then and then

2136
01:18:16,550 --> 01:18:14,800
right and while kirsten and i are

2137
01:18:17,669 --> 01:18:16,560
actually doing an uh experience and

2138
01:18:19,750 --> 01:18:17,679
group support meeting while we're

2139
01:18:21,430 --> 01:18:19,760
co-hosting a support meeting so we won't

2140
01:18:23,669 --> 01:18:21,440
be able to be there but we'll be there

2141
01:18:26,470 --> 01:18:23,679
in spirit and um

2142
01:18:29,189 --> 01:18:26,480
and so get some good dirt on on the both

2143
01:18:31,270 --> 01:18:29,199
of us with stewart if you can yeah um

2144
01:18:33,510 --> 01:18:31,280
and then i saw you guys you've got

2145
01:18:37,110 --> 01:18:33,520
nathan from liminal frames and calling

2146
01:18:39,110 --> 01:18:37,120
all beings and uap book club on yeah

2147
01:18:40,870 --> 01:18:39,120
right yep that's going to be awesome too

2148
01:18:43,750 --> 01:18:40,880
i'm kind of jealous of that conversation

2149
01:18:45,430 --> 01:18:43,760
i wanna like uh i love nathan he's great

2150
01:18:46,630 --> 01:18:45,440
so you can always come on over the

2151
01:18:49,590 --> 01:18:46,640
door's open

2152
01:18:52,709 --> 01:18:49,600
oh man i leave the door open so that's

2153
01:18:54,550 --> 01:18:52,719
sweet awesome yeah all right well

2154
01:18:56,310 --> 01:18:54,560
we'll see what happens then all right

2155
01:18:58,709 --> 01:18:56,320
great to see i'll leave us i'll leave a

2156
01:19:00,630 --> 01:18:58,719
square on the screen empty for you oh

2157
01:19:03,510 --> 01:19:00,640
that sounds awesome all right

2158
01:19:05,430 --> 01:19:03,520
cool all right all right

2159
01:19:10,370 --> 01:19:05,440
see you soon man love you

2160
01:19:22,340 --> 01:19:20,710
[Music]

2161
01:19:24,470 --> 01:19:22,350
[Applause]